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  1. #1
    TheCarpEnters's Avatar
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    Default couple of questions please...

    Hi. My dad passed away this spring and we are not in the posses of selling his house. there was an inspection done of the house..

    the inspector noticed here were 2 electrical receptacles right above electric baseboards. I went there toning and saw there were also 2 phone jacks above the same baseboards. so my first question is is a phone jack allowed or not on top of a electric heating baseboard ?

    also his house was built about 27 years ago. in the kitchen there is 6 pod lights in the sealing, 120vlt. above the pod lights is the attic, exposed to the cold, and with R40 pink insulation .... the pod lights are not the new types with the big metal box for air ; just imagine a metal cup upside down with socket for the bulb..that's what they are...can this deficiency be a " Grandfather clause " , or it has to be fix right away?

    thanks for your help
    stef

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  2. #2
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    Aug 2007
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    Default Re: couple of questions please...

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCarpEnters View Post
    Hi. My dad passed away this spring and we are not in the posses of selling his house. there was an inspection done of the house..

    the inspector noticed here were 2 electrical receptacles right above electric baseboards. I went there toning and saw there were also 2 phone jacks above the same baseboards. so my first question is is a phone jack allowed or not on top of a electric heating baseboard ?

    also his house was built about 27 years ago. in the kitchen there is 6 pod lights in the sealing, 120vlt. above the pod lights is the attic, exposed to the cold, and with R40 pink insulation .... the pod lights are not the new types with the big metal box for air ; just imagine a metal cup upside down with socket for the bulb..that's what they are...can this deficiency be a " Grandfather clause " , or it has to be fix right away?

    thanks for your help
    stef
    .
    Welcome and sorry for your loss,

    The reasoning of no outlets above baseboard heating is the electrical ( or other ) cords of the items plugged in could catch fire from being draped over or on the heaters. If these are a Fire Hazard I would suggest blocking them off with plain ( no holes ) outlet covers.
    '
    I would ask the Inspector concerning the lighting as he got a first hand look.

    Concerning The Sale of a Property Nothing Has to be Fixed to sale everything could be negotiated on Item per Item .
    .

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: couple of questions please...

    What Billy said. The home inspector has no authority to make you change anything in the home. Discuss the issues with the buyers. We sometimes see the expression 'as is, where is' in the sales agreement.

    By the way, if the receptacle must be used and cords can't be kept clear, it is far easier sometimes to move the electric baseboard heater to one side, or install two smaller units, either side of the receptacle. Nevertheless, it is a job only a licensed electrician can do (240 volts).
    Anyone can remove insulation from on top of an old pot light. I wouldn't let that item stop the sale.

    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
    www.allsafehome.ca

  4. #4
    TheCarpEnters's Avatar
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    Default Re: couple of questions please...

    thank you very much for the help !

    have a great day !

    stef



  5. #5
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    Jan 2011
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    Mississauga, Canada
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    Default Re: couple of questions please...

    It is easier to block off the outlets with blank covers, than to relocate the baseboard heating. Also since base board heating is normally below a window, relocating it would reduce its effectiveness and interfere with the uniformity of the temperature in the room.

    This is an easily rectified matter and should not stop the sale.

    Thanks,
    Mike.


  6. #6
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    Default Re: couple of questions please...

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCarpEnters View Post
    a " Grandfather clause " , or it has to be fix right away?
    Regardless of when a safety item was installed, or if someone thought it was safe at the time of installation ... whether or not it is safe *now* is not affected by either of those.

    Think of an old balcony railing with a 12" spacing between balusters ... not very safe is that? Well, 'it was' considered 'safe' at one time, let's just say that time was 100 years ago. Advancements in the codes have come to recognize that a 12" spacing is not safe for guard rails. That 12" spacing is not any less safe if installed 100 years ago or if installed today (if one were stupid enough to install a 12" spacing guard rail today).

    "Time" *is not* a safety feature. Just because no one has died YET at that guard railing does not mean it is 'safe' today.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  7. #7
    TheCarpEnters's Avatar
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    Default Re: couple of questions please...

    now about those pod lights in the insulated sealing, would it be a solution if we were to put a tin metal box over the pod ligths from the attik, and caulk fireproof red silicone? would that be acceptable in today code ?
    probably not, but I thought I could ask anyways...


    stef


  8. #8
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    Default Re: couple of questions please...


  9. #9
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    Default Re: couple of questions please...

    Those recessed may be IC rated. IC = insulation contact.

    All answers based on unamended National Electrical codes.

  10. #10
    TheCarpEnters's Avatar
    TheCarpEnters Guest

    Default Re: couple of questions please...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
    Those recessed may be IC rated. IC = insulation contact.
    HO !... would you know how to find out?

    the pods are 5" deep and 3 1/2 " wide.

    I dad was a well educated fellow and the electric work for his house was done by a reputable company, so I tent to believe the pods were good for the code of that period...

    what do you think? see picture

    thanks
    stef





  11. #11
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    Default Re: couple of questions please...

    Yep those are not ic rated.
    Always look for the vent slots.

    When they have the white plastic liners they are not to be used with incandescent s either and par spots should be used..


  12. #12
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    Default Re: couple of questions please...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Elliott View Post
    Yep those are not ic rated.
    Always look for the vent slots.

    ..
    Does that apply for all brands?

    The Progress P87 has slots and is IC or non-IC rated.

    All answers based on unamended National Electrical codes.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: couple of questions please...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Elliott View Post

    When they have the white plastic liners they are not to be used with incandescent s either and par spots should be used..
    could you please explain what is " the white plastic liners " in that picture?

    and, if not too much trouble, could you please define "Par spot" for me ? I am French and Sheakpere came late in my life...

    so , those lights are wrong even with Par spots in them iyo ?


  14. #14
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    Default Re: couple of questions please...

    Sorry this is graphic text however it should be helpful to some.
    I took a shot of the inside reflector to show where you will find information.
    Just pull down the retaining ring if it is reachable .

    The text is hard to read on here so I ran it through One Note's OCR software.


    Installation Tips
    Can Lights
    Before blowing insulation in an attic, 1 is necessary to check for can lights. The best way to locate these lights to check from inside the house rather than looking in the attic. If you’re only checking for lights by looking in the attic then you may ins them if they are aleady covered by insulation
    There are two basic types of can lights:
    • IC rated
    • Non-IC rated
    IC-rated can lights are insulation certified and you may blow insulation over these lights. These lights may be identified Wi a couple of ways. One ways to remove the but and look for TYPE C or a similar IC statement within the canister. Another way to look for the presence/absence of slots in the canter. After locating the can lights from below, you can visually inspect them in the attic. If the can light does NOT have slots ii it for ventilation then you may blow insulation over it,

    Non-IC rated can lights wlli need a heat shield placed around them prior to blowing insulation. These lights wiIl have slots in the canister.
    Heat shields are constructed of duct board. SIiIy construct a dud board box to place around the can light. The easiest arid quickest way to do this is to use a V-groove tool (these may be purchased from your detrtutor). The V-groove tool quickly cuts a groove in the act board so that It mey be folded rita a box shape and sealed on end with foil tape, Cutting four separate sides and taping each one together extremely time consuming so we strongly recommend the Vgroove tool
    Be sure there la at least 3 riches of space between the Ight and the heat shield. It Is also recommended to maIe the heat shield 2 feet tall with a duct board lid on it. Two feet top clearance allows adequate space for heat dispersion from the light whde the lid prevents heat loss through the attic.
    If a non-IC rated light has been installed up against a bottom cord, then simply cut a notch in your box to ensure a proper
    Remember, an IC-rated light means I Can blow insulation over It and a non-IC rated light requires a heat shield box.

    ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images
    Last edited by Bob Elliott; 01-11-2012 at 06:48 PM.

  15. #15
    TheCarpEnters's Avatar
    TheCarpEnters Guest

    Default Re: couple of questions please...

    1000 thank you to all of you here.

    this place is great !

    best Regards

    stef


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