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Thread: Breaker Labling

  1. #1
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    Default Breaker Labling

    Aluminum wire connected to 50 amp 240 volt breaker. Breaker is labeled CU Only, but once I got home to finish the report I see the label also has CU/AL on it. How is this label to be interpreted?

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Breaker Labling

    Confusing to say the least. However, if I were to guess I would say that CSA has only listed the breaker for use with copper. I don't know why they would list it differently than Siemens.

    Might be time for a phone call to Siemens Tech Support.

    All answers based on unamended National Electrical codes.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Breaker Labling

    The CU only is above the column for amperages 35 or under. The breaker is listed for aluminum for 40 to 50 AMPs.

    Yes, confusing. The "cheap at any inconvienience" shows up here in the form of being too cheap to make a stamp for different sizes of breakers.

    Occam's eraser: The philosophical principle that even the simplest solution is bound to have something wrong with it.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Breaker Labling

    The CU only is above the column for amperages 35 or under. The breaker is listed for aluminum for 40 to 50 AMPs.

    Yes, confusing. The "cheap at any inconvienience" shows up here in the form of being too cheap to make a stamp for different sizes of breakers.

    Why I have to carry copies of manufacturer's catalogs around in the "smart phone" for building inspections.

    Occam's eraser: The philosophical principle that even the simplest solution is bound to have something wrong with it.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Breaker Labling

    Are these CB's feeding AC units? Otherwise the conductors look a little small.


  6. #6
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    Default Re: Breaker Labling

    Yes, to AC units

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    Default Re: Breaker Labling

    The wire connector screws don't look right to me. They appear to be simple slotted screws, and not combination slotted/robertson screw heads from what I can see in the first photograph of the four wire connector screw heads I can see in the first photograph in various positions. I may very well be mistaken, but I thought all residential Siemens QP breakers had combination slot/robertson wire connector screws on them.

    I'm also not recalling EVER seeing a black label on a SIEMENS QP Breaker wherein SIEMENS hasn't been in ALL Capital Letters.

    I'm also wondering why I am seeing the word "Listed" (in upper & lower case) to the right of the UL insignia & trademark lacking a US lower right of the UL insignia circle; and not below same, and how the word "Listed" has been run together with an abbreviated description. I am further concerned as to the improper proportion appearance of the CSA insignia and the lacking trademark mark which is always to the right center of the open C, as discussed in the second link whitepaper from CSA on Counterfeiting products and the improper use of their insignia marks dating back to 2002; and some other "typesetting" concerns on the labels.

    I am suspicious that the pictured may be counterfeit. Unknown age of what is pictured, and obviously more details would be necessary to explore/confirm with the manufacturer, including the breaker side view and label information (origin, date code, etc.).

    See white paper from Siemens attached. Although it focuses more on the 15 & 20 Amp QPs it does address the issue in general.

    Contact information is included in the attached. If you prefer to read the Siemens white paper from last year on line it may be viewed here: http://www.sea.siemens.com/us/intern...terfeit_WP.pdf

    CSA's whitepaper on counterfeiting anti-counterfeiting efforts, hosted on NEMA.org's website: http://www.nema.org/gov/anti-counter...te_paper_e.pdf

    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 02-22-2012 at 11:51 PM. Reason: added link to CSA whitepaper regarding suspect mark

  8. #8
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    Wink Re: Breaker Labling

    HG you are a paranoid old..... :-)

    20 year old house. I assumed the breakers are original except for one or two of the branch circuits. The house is vacant and the panel is accessible so I might just have to go back and get a few more photos. I won't be in the area tomorrow but possibly Friday.

    I'll let you know

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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Breaker Labling

    Looks like the breaker is copper only for Canada, since the OP is in Bakersfield, what it is listed for in Canuckistan is irrelevent.


  10. #10
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    Default Re: Breaker Labling

    A few more photos of the suspect breakers.

    Rollie, please explain about the Canadian listing.

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    Default Re: Breaker Labling

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Martin View Post
    A few more photos of the suspect breakers.

    Rollie, please explain about the Canadian listing.

    The breaker is UL listed as shown by the photos in the orig. post, it is marked as "CU/AL 60/75C WIRE" below it is the CSA trademark w/ "CU only" on it which means to me it a Canadian listing restriction that has no value outside of Canada.


  12. #12
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    Default Re: Breaker Labling

    Quote Originally Posted by Rollie Meyers View Post
    The breaker is UL listed as shown by the photos in the orig. post, it is marked as "CU/AL 60/75C WIRE" below it is the CSA trademark w/ "CU only" on it which means to me it a Canadian listing restriction that has no value outside of Canada.
    Thanks, Rollie. CSA - Canadian Standards Association.
    Now tell us why those breakers had to be assembled in Mexico.

    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
    www.allsafehome.ca

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Breaker Labling

    Perhaps when these were made the CSA knew something UL didn't, and listed them the way they did for good reason. Just because they're in a different country doesn't make them any safer.

    Do not think of knocking out another person's brains because he differs in opinion from you. It would be as rational to knock yourself on the head because you differ from yourself ten years ago.
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  14. #14
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    Default Re: Breaker Labling

    Quote Originally Posted by John Kogel View Post
    Thanks, Rollie. CSA - Canadian Standards Association.
    Now tell us why those breakers had to be assembled in Mexico.

    Just like everything else, 'cause of cheaper labor...... & the North American Fraud and Theft Agreement, NAFTA that Canukistan,the US & Mexico are part of.


  15. #15
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    Default Re: Breaker Labling

    The first photo in Don's followup post/series clearly confirms that the wire connector screws are simple slot-only type and that

    Combination slot/robertson wire connector screws are not present.

    Would have expected combination slot/robertson wire connector screws for January 1992 mfg and esp. for Canadian approval/market labeling.



    Suspected counterfeit, the panel as well, suspected counterfeit/bootleg.

    The hotline number and contact information for SIEMENS has already been supplied earlier. Suggest verification of authenticity or suspected counterfeit-ness with Manufacturer.

    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 02-26-2012 at 08:54 AM.

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