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Thread: Just wondering

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    Default Just wondering

    Quick question my inspection brothers,
    Is NM sheathed wiring allowed in the crawlspace or does it need to be BX or routed in conduit Your prompt response would be greatly appreciated!!

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  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Just wondering

    Check your local code

    Steven Turetsky, UID #16000002314
    homeinspectionsnewyork.com
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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Knoxville, TN
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    Default Re: Just wondering

    Its allowed in my area.


  4. #4
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    Snowbird (this means I'm retired and migrate between locations), FL/MI
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    Default Re: Just wondering

    It depends.

    See Article 334 for starters..link below is to California's version of the NEC.

    RealRead Viewer : California*Electrical*Code*2010


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Just wondering

    The answer is not a blanket yes or no. What are the conditions in the crawlspace? Under what code was it installed? Prohibited installations have changed under the NEC. I believe the CEC is taken from the NEC with some changes.

    All answers based on unamended National Electrical codes.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Just wondering

    As mentioned, depends on the local code. In Edmonton as long as not in earth contact, definitely yes.


  7. #7
    Garry Blankenship's Avatar
    Garry Blankenship Guest

    Default Re: Just wondering

    This is a bit loosely enforced and really an AHJ call. The code requires that NM wires be "protected" within 5', ( maybe 10' ? ) of crawl access only. It can be accomplished by runner boards next to them, keeping them under the joist surfaces in that area or conduit / BX. In some areas it is ignored altogether.


  8. #8
    Garry Blankenship's Avatar
    Garry Blankenship Guest

    Default Re: Just wondering

    Apologies for my earlier post. I was thinking attic crawl space. It is allowed almost anywhere in residential construction as long as it is not subject to physical damage.


  9. #9
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    Default Re: Just wondering

    Most crawlspaces would be damp locations, correct?

    That is, other than crawlspaces serving as return air plenums.

    - Location, Damp. Locations protected from weather and not subject to saturation with water or other liquids but subject to moderate degrees of moisture. Examples of such locations include partially protected locations under canopies, marquees, roofed open porches, and like locations, and interior locations subject to moderate degrees of moisture, such as some basements, some barns, and some cold-storage warehouses.

    - Location, Dry. A location not normally subject to dampness or wetness. A location classified as dry may be temporarily subject to dampness or wetness, as in the case of a building under construction.

    - Location, Wet. Installations underground or in concrete slabs or masonry in direct contact with the earth; in locations subject to saturation with water or other liquids, such as vehicle washing areas; and in unprotected locations exposed to weather.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Just wondering

    NM in a crawl space ?
    Thats a loaded question here !
    Some here will automatically state that Most if not all crawl spaces are damp locations.
    They base this on their own location. Others will say they are not, there agin based on their location.
    I will say it depends on the crawl space. I have been in many in my area that are so dry they are dusty! Then I've been in some that were like a swamp.


  11. #11
    Robert Rolleston's Avatar
    Robert Rolleston Guest

    Default Re: Just wondering

    I have seen some drive in basement garages with ten foot ceilings that were like ponds. So I think it all depends on the area and if it was allowed when installed and grandfathered. I think it's a good thing for everyone that we are not required to change stuff in our home to keep up with code unless we make changes, repairs or upgrades.


  12. #12
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    Default Re: Just wondering

    Quote Originally Posted by ken horak View Post
    Others will say they are not, there agin based on their location.
    You noticed that I stirred the pot and put up the recipe, but did not comment on how to cook it.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Just wondering

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    You noticed that I stirred the pot and put up the recipe, but did not comment on how to cook it.
    Yes I did notice


  14. #14
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    michigan
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    Default Re: Just wondering

    Ya, I remember going back and forth with the what is damp with you JP
    I submit that vented attic spaces are more damp than most crawls.
    Answer for the OP, yes NM is allowed in attics unless specifically prohibited by local.

    I inspected a modular home today that was put on a new crawl. There was plenty of NM from the factory in the floor joists. It was dry under there... how dry U axed?
    It was so dry,, saw a rat dead of dehydration while pulling a knife on a mouse for a piece of cheese. It's true.

    It was already mentioned the cables need mechanical protection around scuttle holes (peoples put shet up there is guess). The AHJ may enforce derating rules due to heat.
    As for crawls, it is an AHJ determination if/where mechanical protection is needed.
    Remember that NM cannot be stapled to the bottom of joists unless the cable contains (3) # 8ga conductors or (2) # 6's per NEC. Going by my poor memory... hope that code hasn't changed but I trust I'll know shortly if not!

    As far as U HI's, how are you to know whether or not the AHJ had allowed anything at all? Perhaps it was done w/o permits?. I suppose you can call out those gray issues as possibilities to be confirmed by the local AHJ.
    I'm not a HI, so I'm just wondering how it's handled by most of you.


  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    Default Re: Just wondering

    Quote Originally Posted by bob smit View Post
    Ya, I remember going back and forth with the what is damp with you JP
    I submit that vented attic spaces are more damp than most crawls.
    Answer for the OP, yes NM is allowed in attics unless specifically prohibited by local.

    I inspected a modular home today that was put on a new crawl. There was plenty of NM from the factory in the floor joists. It was dry under there... how dry U axed?
    It was so dry,, saw a rat dead of dehydration while pulling a knife on a mouse for a piece of cheese. It's true.

    It was already mentioned the cables need mechanical protection around scuttle holes (peoples put shet up there is guess). The AHJ may enforce derating rules due to heat.
    As for crawls, it is an AHJ determination if/where mechanical protection is needed.
    Remember that NM cannot be stapled to the bottom of joists unless the cable contains (3) # 8ga conductors or (2) # 6's per NEC. Going by my poor memory... hope that code hasn't changed but I trust I'll know shortly if not!

    As far as U HI's, how are you to know whether or not the AHJ had allowed anything at all? Perhaps it was done w/o permits?. I suppose you can call out those gray issues as possibilities to be confirmed by the local AHJ.
    I'm not a HI, so I'm just wondering how it's handled by most of you.
    The requirement for running boards, being run through bored holes has only begun since the adoption of the 2008 NEC, lots of installations were done prior to that change.

    334.15(C) 2008 edition
    (C) In Unfinished Basements and Crawl Spaces.
    Where
    cable is run at angles with joists in unfinished basements
    and crawl spaces, it shall be permissible to secure cables
    not smaller than two 6 AWG or three 8 AWG conductors
    directly to the lower edges of the joists. Smaller cables
    shall be run either through bored holes in joists or on running

    boards............................................ ................................
    .................................................. ...................................
    .................................................. ...................................



  16. #16
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    michigan
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    Default Re: Just wondering

    Rollie, just adopted 2008 NEC??
    I just opened a 1999 cause it was closest to my chair... NEC art 336 part B, same thing, and I know it goes way back to when I was green.


  17. #17
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Just wondering

    Quote Originally Posted by bob smit View Post
    Rollie, just adopted 2008 NEC??
    I just opened a 1999 cause it was closest to my chair... NEC art 336 part B, same thing, and I know it goes way back to when I was green.
    Crawl spaces were added in '08.


  18. #18
    Join Date
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    Fuquay Varina, NC
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    Default Re: Just wondering

    Spaces is confusing when posted on this forum because different locals may have different terms. Around these here parts we call "crawl space" under the home. We just call roof area "attic". Both use NM and the like since it's been available.

    Mike Schulz License 393
    Affordable Home Inspections
    www.houseinspections.com

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