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  1. #1
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    Default Breakers in incorrect location?

    Double checking to make sure based on legend, upper DP disconnects are in incorrect location.

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    Default Re: Breakers in incorrect location?

    According to the listing on the label, it's ok since they're double width. On the other hand, If you put those double width two poles on the bottom, there would be a problem. The problem would be recognized instantly since things would not work.

    The listing shows that on the bottom portion, slim breakers are used.

    I dont even think the those normal width breakers would even snap on at the bottom portion.

    Last edited by John Dirks Jr; 03-25-2012 at 06:27 AM.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Breakers in incorrect location?

    The two poles or full size single poles can go in either the top or bottom. However twin style breakers can go in the bottom portion only.


  4. #4
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    Default Re: Breakers in incorrect location?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Meier View Post
    The two poles or full size single poles can go in either the top or bottom. However twin style breakers can go in the bottom portion only.
    Correct.

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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Breakers in incorrect location?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc M View Post
    Double checking to make sure based on legend, upper DP disconnects are in incorrect location.

    The legend and diagram explains that SP or 2P Type HOM are allowed both above and below the service disconnect; and that type HOMT are allowed only below the service disconnect. (The "T" in type HOMT means tandem {or Quad} Homeline breakers).

    2P Type HOM breakers equal to or less than 100 amps each, are allowed above and below the service disconnect .

    See the following post (replying to John Dirks, Jr.) and its attached document from Schneider/SquareD specific to the installation/fitting of both Type HOM and Type HOMT breakers in CSED all-in-ones.

    HTH.

    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 03-25-2012 at 10:48 AM.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Breakers in incorrect location?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Dirks Jr View Post
    According to the listing on the label, it's ok since they're double width. On the other hand, If you put those double width two poles on the bottom, there would be a problem. The problem would be recognized instantly since things would not work.

    The listing shows that on the bottom portion, slim breakers are used.

    I dont even think the those normal width breakers would even snap on at the bottom portion.
    You are incorrect. Type HOM single or 2P may be used top or bottom. Type HOMT breakers, IF used, may only be used on the bottom.

    Attached is a document specific to the fitting/installation of both type HOM and type HOMT breakers in a CSED. HOMT rejection feature above the service disconnect, and how type HOM fit in both locations.

    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 03-25-2012 at 10:45 AM.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Breakers in incorrect location?

    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    You are incorrect. Type HOM single or 2P may be used top or bottom. Type HOMT breakers, IF used, may only be used on the bottom.

    Attached is a document specific to the fitting/installation of both type HOM and type HOMT breakers in a CSED. HOMT rejection feature above the service disconnect, and how type HOM fit in both locations.

    Thanks for correcting me. The diagram had me thinking that the buss bar connectors wouldn't accept the standard size breakers on the bottom. The double hash mark, when compared to the single hash on the upper part had me thinking it would not be mechanically possible.

    Does the upper and lower part of the buss bars look similar, even though the diagram shows single hashs on top and a doubles on the bottom? I'd like to see a straight on shot of a real buss bar. Also, aren't the breakers designed in a way that won't let them be installed in the wrong position?

    I do know you wouldn't want to run a multi wire circuit across a single tandem breaker on the bottom part. That would have the same phase sharing a neutral for two circuits. I've caught that error once in 4 years.


  8. #8
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    Default Re: Breakers in incorrect location?

    Ok, I looked at some old pictures. I understand it now. The doc HG posted helped me also.

    BTW, have any of you found when people modify the tandem breakers so they fit where they were not intended to?


  9. #9
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    Default Re: Breakers in incorrect location?

    John, there are both CTL and non-CTL tandems. The CTL has a difference in the mounting foot to prevent them from being used in the wrong locations on the buss.

    The non-CTL will fit anywhere on the buss and is for replacement use only, but not everyone follows that rule.

    PM me and I can let you see the difference on Tuesday afternoon or drop them in your mailbox.

    All answers based on unamended National Electrical codes.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Breakers in incorrect location?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
    John, there are both CTL and non-CTL tandems. The CTL has a difference in the mounting foot to prevent them from being used in the wrong locations on the buss.

    The non-CTL will fit anywhere on the buss and is for replacement use only, but not everyone follows that rule.

    PM me and I can let you see the difference on Tuesday afternoon or drop them in your mailbox.
    Thanks for the offer Jim. Do you suppose I could dig the shelves at home depot and see examples of the different types?


  11. #11
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    Default Re: Breakers in incorrect location?

    The non-CTL might be hard to find on the shelves. CTL should be easily available.

    All answers based on unamended National Electrical codes.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Breakers in incorrect location?

    Fantastic information, thanks. And thanks HG for that Doc, good stuff.

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  13. #13
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    Default Re: Breakers in incorrect location?

    The HOM* is too new of a design to have both non-CTL & CTL types, there should be no Non-CTL HOM frame breakers avail., the only ones would be competitive so-called "interchangable" breakers.


    *SQ D Homeline I think was introduced in the late 1980's, way too late to have non-CTL versions.


  14. #14
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    Default Re: Breakers in incorrect location?

    Good point Rollie, I was thinking of the QO's.

    All answers based on unamended National Electrical codes.

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