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  1. #1
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    Default Exposed exterior conductor - flex nylon conduit type

    I'm looking for little help writing this one up. These conductors in flexible nylon conduit exit the rear of a garage, unprotected by any rigid conduit, right by a walkway then go underground to service a pond pump etc. in the backyard. No GFCI in the panel. No way to know how deep it runs or if there is protection installed.

    Not clear on what the flexible nylon conduit buys you. Is it suitable for wet/underground installation? Does not look like UF/NMW to me.

    List solutions or just say unsafe installation and consult an electrician? Personally I like to be a little more helpful than that.

    a) No GFCI
    b) needs an LB fitting and rigid conduit
    c) cable type???






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  2. #2
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    Spring Hill (Nashville), TN
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    Default Re: Exposed exterior conductor - flex nylon conduit type

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Barre View Post
    I'm looking for little help writing this one up. These conductors in flexible nylon conduit exit the rear of a garage, unprotected by any rigid conduit, right by a walkway then go underground to service a pond pump etc. in the backyard. No GFCI in the panel. No way to know how deep it runs or if there is protection installed.

    Not clear on what the flexible nylon conduit buys you. Is it suitable for wet/underground installation? Does not look like UF/NMW to me.

    List solutions or just say unsafe installation and consult an electrician? Personally I like to be a little more helpful than that.

    a) No GFCI
    b) needs an LB fitting and rigid conduit
    c) cable type???
    I would simply report that the electrical supply for the pond is not properly protected by conduit that is rated for outside underground service and that I could not locate the required GFCI protection. Have a qualified electrician make the needed corrections.

    That should cover it pretty good....

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Exposed exterior conductor - flex nylon conduit type

    I agree with Scott. If you're not an electrician, don't try to do the electrician's job. Helpful suggestions imply that the home owner should fix it himself, and that can lead to more trouble when there's electrical wiring involved.

    It is an amateur installation that was not covered by a permit. That is why an electrician now needs to repair it.

    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
    www.allsafehome.ca

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Exposed exterior conductor - flex nylon conduit type

    I would say
    Improperly wired xxxx,
    have an electrician make appropriate repairs.

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Exposed exterior conductor - flex nylon conduit type

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    I would simply report that the electrical supply for the pond is not properly protected by conduit that is rated for outside underground service and that I could not locate the required GFCI protection. Have a qualified electrician make the needed corrections.

    That should cover it pretty good....
    I would add this to the list: Do not use the pond, turn power off to the pond, the pond is unsafe as wired and is an potential electrical shock and electrocution hazard.

    That may sound a bit tough to some, but about a month and a half ago an 11 year old girl was playing miniature golf in Orlando, they were down from New York on vacation. Her ball went into the little water pond created as a water hazard (turns out it was a real water hazard), she stepped into the shallow pond to retriever her ball and was electrocuted.

    Investigators think the cause was a faulty pump connected to an improper breaker.

    Personally ... *I* ... would not want my name associated with 'Home inspector fails to report improperly wired pond pump and the family's youngest child is electrocuted 1 day after moving into the house.'

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Exposed exterior conductor - flex nylon conduit type

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Meier View Post
    Although protection is needed, an LB conduit body would likely violated the 5X bending radius required for the cable.
    Being as it is likely NM cable and is not allowed for that installation anyway, a junction box mounted to the wall will all the NM cable (if it is NM cable) to be changed to UF and the black smurf stuff to be changed to Sch 80 from that junction box to where it goes into the ground and down to the required burial depth or 18" maximum. No liquidtight conduit is allowed in that area as liquidtight is not rated for protection from physical damage.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Exposed exterior conductor - flex nylon conduit type

    OP is in Canada. Canada has NMW90 the W is for WET locations.

    You've been reminded of this many times before Peck. The OP identified the cable as UF/NMW. We do not know if the cable in question is sunlight resistant, even if it is UV resistant, the pictured installation is not correct.

    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 08-10-2012 at 09:29 PM.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Exposed exterior conductor - flex nylon conduit type

    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    OP is in Canada. Canada has NMW90 the W is for WET locations.

    The OP identified the cable as UF/NMW.
    If I may offer a correction, Mr Watson.The OP says it does not look like UF/NMW to him. The Canadian NMW is black in colour, making it easy to ID at a glance.

    The white jacket on that cable indicates it is rated for indoor use only, probably NMD 14/2. NMD 12/2 is now color-coded yellow. An unsafe amateur installation, we all agree.

    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
    www.allsafehome.ca

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Exposed exterior conductor - flex nylon conduit type

    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    OP is in Canada. Canada has NMW90 the W is for WET locations.

    You've been reminded of this many times before Peck.
    Watson,

    So you've gone and made an arse of yourself again, huh?

    You are so determined to try to one-up EVERYONE that you do not even read the posts and end up looking like the arse you try to make others look like.

    You are one piece of cake, Watson ... an old, moldy, crumbling piece at that.

    I've added bold and underlining for you, Watson:
    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr.
    The OP identified the cable as UF/NMW
    Actually, Watson, the original poster said:
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Barre View Post
    Does not look like UF/NMW to me.
    Watson,

    Yet again, and no doubt you will repeat the cycle many more times, you have made yourself look like an idiot and an arse.

    Here's to you for shooting yourself in the foot yet again ... be careful ... it's loaded with real bullets ... don't aim it at your feet again ... sheesh.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  10. #10
    Garry Blankenship's Avatar
    Garry Blankenship Guest

    Default Re: Exposed exterior conductor - flex nylon conduit type

    Looks like NM cable which I learned here is not appoved for use inside a raceway. The spiraling plastic jacket is a respectable effort to provide physical protection for the cable, but not a code compliant effort. Where the cable exits the exterior is both inadequately protected and calked / sealed.


  11. #11
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    Default Re: Exposed exterior conductor - flex nylon conduit type

    Garry, NM can be run in raceways. The NEC is rather clear about this.

    The NM cannot be run in an exterior raceway.

    All answers based on unamended National Electrical codes.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Exposed exterior conductor - flex nylon conduit type

    Quote Originally Posted by Garry Blankenship View Post
    The spiraling plastic jacket is a respectable effort to provide physical protection for the cable, but not a code compliant effort.
    Garry,

    That black plastic cable organizer is simply one of those black plastic things like you can buy at Radio Shack which is split down one side and is used to organize cable and make them look neater - it offers basically no protection from physical damage.

    In addition to offering basically no protection from physical damage, it is also not code compliant.

    I would not consider that a "respectable effort", I would consider it a effort by a person who had no idea what they were doing or why they were doing it.

    This is what that black "raceway" looks like:
    - Cable Tubing, Convoluted Tubing, Wire Loom, Split Wire Loom, Wiring Loom, Wiring Looms, Non Slit Wire Loom, Wire Wrap
    - Flexible Split Wire Loom for Cable Organization and Protection

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Exposed exterior conductor - flex nylon conduit type

    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    We do not know if the cable in question is sunlight resistant, even if it is UV resistant, the pictured installation is not correct.
    Wait, is there a difference between "sunlight resistant" and "UV resistant" or was this just poorly worded?


  14. #14
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    Smile Re: Exposed exterior conductor - flex nylon conduit type

    I hafta say .... some of this is more entertaining than Walter Matthau and Jack Lemon It has the added benefit of being educational.

    "the relentless pursuit of perfection"

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Exposed exterior conductor - flex nylon conduit type

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Peake View Post
    I hafta say .... some of this is more entertaining than Walter Matthau and Jack Lemon It has the added benefit of being educational.
    I actually took a few years off from this site because of the "look at me, look at me" that every post seemed to sink to. All is can say is, nothing changed except one poster who has a few initials before his last name has grown more abrasive.

    Paul Kondzich
    Ft. Myers, FL.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Exposed exterior conductor - flex nylon conduit type

    Quote Originally Posted by John Kogel View Post
    If I may offer a correction, Mr Watson.The OP says it does not look like UF/NMW to him. The Canadian NMW is black in colour, making it easy to ID at a glance.

    The white jacket on that cable indicates it is rated for indoor use only, probably NMD 14/2. NMD 12/2 is now color-coded yellow. An unsafe amateur installation, we all agree.
    Sorry to disagree with you J.K., but CSA approved NMWU90 IS available in Yellow, Black, and White (specified sunlight resistant, or not), and for that matter, a yellow is not limited to 12 ga. Yes, black is most common for NMWU "sunlight resistant", but White jacket IS available, and IS available in "sunlight resistant", as is Yellow jacket and in sizes other than 12 AWG.

    You'll find most are rated to 300V for your market, some are rated to 600V (usually used in MHs & mods sent south to the Pac. NW states). Regarding jacket colors IT DEPENDS.

    The designations are not "slanted". If its NMWU its rated for underground burial, which the local authority may require additional protection, the W always designates suitability for WET locations, cable.

    I don't recall the OP having verified the installation is line voltage, either.

    CU-NMWU (all guages 2C & 3C availble in yellow jacket from Southwire)

    NMWU - ECS - Electrical Cable Supply (Domtech)

    and White jacketed NMWU with or without sunlight resistance example:

    NMWU SUPERVEX 300 Volts 60ÂșC - Nexans

    NNMU90 available with Sunlight Resistant White Jacket (see bottom of page under "SELLING DELIVERY INSTRUCTIONS" where it states:
    "Jacket Colours: Black is standard and is sunlight resistant. White jackets are available on request, these can be sunlight resistant, if required.

    Insulation colours: 2 Conductors - Black, White
    3 Conductors - Black, Red, White.

    ** For 3 wire 120/240 and 120/208 volt esidential services or sub-services, the llowable mpcity for size #6 AWG shll be 50 amperes. In this case, the 5% adjustment per Rule 8-106(1) cannot be applied."

    Seems we had an example photograph posted of unsecured/supported 3C white jacketed (don't recall if was designated sunlight resistant) NMWU90 to an exterior AC or HP in your area not all that long ago. IIRC was a waterfront vacation hotel or B&B project, that had several discussion topics over a few months, might have been from Peter L.

    Standard is CSA C22.2 No. 48

    Even so, is not correct as installed, not properly secured, supported, protected to proper burial depth, subject to damage uncovered and stones, and emerging from building finish stucco or plaster inproper.

    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 08-16-2012 at 11:27 AM.

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