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  1. #1

    Default Disposal & Dishwasher tied toghether?

    Found this in yesterday’s new condo inspection… the breaker for the dishwasher and disposal are connected together, they are the two 15 amp breakers on the upper right. Does this make sense? Is there a reason to do this?

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    Default Re: Disposal & Dishwasher tied toghether?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Zehnder View Post
    Found this in yesterday’s new condo inspection… the breaker for the dishwasher and disposal are connected together, they are the two 15 amp breakers on the upper right. Does this make sense? Is there a reason to do this?
    Jeff,

    Code requires receptacle outlets that share the same yoke to turn-off simultaneously. I don't remember the exact wording or article section. Basically, if you remove the little tab from the side of a duplex receptacle outlet, you can attach separate circuits to each outlet. But, there is a danger of electrocuting someone who only shuts off one circuit. As a result, the NEC requires both circuits to turn off simultaneously. This is now true of multi-wire circuits, which that also appears to be.

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    Default Re: Disposal & Dishwasher tied toghether?

    Gunnar is correct on both points.

    All answers based on unamended National Electrical codes.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Disposal & Dishwasher tied toghether?

    Funny this should pop up today. We just had our 15-year-old dishwasher replaced this morning, and the install guys found that it was on the same circuit as the disposal. He said that code now requires the two to be on different breakers. He got the new machine installed (had to put in a junction box), but I know that when/if we do any upgrades or renovations to the kitchen we will have to get a new branch circuit for the disposal. When did this become code, I wonder?

    Welmoed Sisson
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    Default Re: Disposal & Dishwasher tied toghether?

    Quote Originally Posted by Welmoed Sisson View Post
    Funny this should pop up today. We just had our 15-year-old dishwasher replaced this morning, and the install guys found that it was on the same circuit as the disposal. He said that code now requires the two to be on different breakers. He got the new machine installed (had to put in a junction box), but I know that when/if we do any upgrades or renovations to the kitchen we will have to get a new branch circuit for the disposal. When did this become code, I wonder?
    If you have a multi-wire circuit, as depicted by the OP, then the disposal and dishwasher are on different breakers.

    The beatings will continue until morale has improved. mgt.

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    Default Re: Disposal & Dishwasher tied toghether?

    Quote Originally Posted by Welmoed Sisson View Post
    Funny this should pop up today. We just had our 15-year-old dishwasher replaced this morning, and the install guys found that it was on the same circuit as the disposal. He said that code now requires the two to be on different breakers. He got the new machine installed (had to put in a junction box), but I know that when/if we do any upgrades or renovations to the kitchen we will have to get a new branch circuit for the disposal. When did this become code, I wonder?

    It would only be required by "code" if it was required in the manufacturer's installation instructions. My DW instructions state it has to be on a 15 amp breaker or fuse unless it is with a kitchen waste disposal then it is required to be on a 20 amp breaker or fuse.

    "Get correct views of life, and learn to see the world in its true light. It will enable you to live pleasantly, to do good, and, when summoned away, to leave without regret. " Robert E. Lee

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    Default Re: Disposal & Dishwasher tied toghether?

    Quote Originally Posted by Welmoed Sisson View Post
    Funny this should pop up today. We just had our 15-year-old dishwasher replaced this morning, and the install guys found that it was on the same circuit as the disposal. He said that code now requires the two to be on different breakers. He got the new machine installed (had to put in a junction box), but I know that when/if we do any upgrades or renovations to the kitchen we will have to get a new branch circuit for the disposal. When did this become code, I wonder?
    Hello Welmoed,

    The code does not say they have to be on separate circuits (different breakers).

    Corey


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    Default Re: Disposal & Dishwasher tied toghether?

    Quote Originally Posted by Corey Friedman View Post
    Hello Welmoed,

    The code does not say they have to be on separate circuits (different breakers).

    Corey
    The code may require it depending on the listing and manufacturers instructions. Not everything is written in the code book concerning the installation.

    "Get correct views of life, and learn to see the world in its true light. It will enable you to live pleasantly, to do good, and, when summoned away, to leave without regret. " Robert E. Lee

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    Default Re: Disposal & Dishwasher tied toghether?

    The NEC (code) MAY require the two appliances be on separate circuits depending on either the manufacturer's requirements (which code dictates that you have to follow) OR if the ratings of the appliance exceed certain values based on circuit capacity. And, some of this depends on whether the appliance is cord and plug connected or hard wired. The requirements may change over time as older appliances are replaced with more efficient ones (use less power) or appliances that use more power for "features" the old ones didn't have.

    My rule of thumb is to install two simplex receptacles on individual 20 AMP circuits to cover manufacturer requirements (if any) and the ability to have right angle cord ends on both appliances - which happens every so often.

    In the overall scheme of things though, a disposer is seldom on more than a minute or two and not likely to cause problems if it's on a dishwasher circuit - doesn't make it "legal" necessarily though and I wouldn't mind seeing an exception for putting both on the same circuit in a residence, subject to something like a horsepower limit on the disposer and wattage limit on the dishwasher.

    Occam's eraser: The philosophical principle that even the simplest solution is bound to have something wrong with it.

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    Default Re: Disposal & Dishwasher tied toghether?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roland Miller View Post
    The code may require it depending on the listing and manufacturers instructions. Not everything is written in the code book concerning the installation.
    Roland,

    Instructions with a particular specification are a given. I was commenting on the post that indicated an installer said that it is a code requirement and that is simply not the case.

    Corey


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    Default Re: Disposal & Dishwasher tied toghether?

    Quote Originally Posted by Corey Friedman View Post
    Roland,

    Instructions with a particular specification are a given. I was commenting on the post that indicated an installer said that it is a code requirement and that is simply not the case.

    Corey
    I often cited a violation of NEC 110.3(B)--"Listed or labeled equipment shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions included in the listing or labeling."
    I understand what you are saying. I am saying there would be a code violation if the instructions were not followed.

    Thanks for your input--it is always valuable.

    "Get correct views of life, and learn to see the world in its true light. It will enable you to live pleasantly, to do good, and, when summoned away, to leave without regret. " Robert E. Lee

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Disposal & Dishwasher tied toghether?

    As stated above that is a multi-wire branch circuit and and as such need to be tied together (turn-off simultaneously) because they share the neutral. I see a lot of multi-wire circuits. This is one of the scenarios I have no real issue with but I really hate it when used on most branch circuits.

    As for the dishwasher the manufacturer would spell out if need to be a 20 amp or not. Some are fine on a 15 amp breaker.

    Hard to tell from a pic but it does look like 12 ga wire so you could put in a 20 amp breaker.

    Don Hester
    NCW Home Inspections, LLC
    Wa. St. Licensed H I #647, WSDA #80050, http://www.ncwhomeinspections.com

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