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  1. #1
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    Default Tankless WH Receptacle Cover Plate

    Exterior wall-mounted tankless water heater. Receptacle cover plate required to be listed and rated for damp area? In-use type?

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Tankless WH Receptacle Cover Plate

    No, not required.

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    Default Re: Tankless WH Receptacle Cover Plate

    I would certainly question whether this is merely a damp or a wet location. The picture does not show enough of the surrounding area.

    With that said here is what the NEC 2011 says:

    406.9 Receptacles in Damp or Wet Locations.
    (A) Damp Locations.
    A receptacle installed outdoors in a
    location protected from the weather or in other damp locations
    shall have an enclosure for the receptacle that is
    weatherproof when the receptacle is covered (attachment
    plug cap not inserted and receptacle covers closed).
    An installation suitable for wet locations shall also be
    considered suitable for damp locations.
    A receptacle shall be considered to be in a location
    protected from the weather where located under roofed
    open porches, canopies, marquees, and the like, and will
    not be subjected to a beating rain or water runoff. All 15-
    and 20-ampere, 125- and 250-volt nonlocking receptacles

    shall be a listed weather-resistant type.

    (B) Wet Locations.
    (1) 15- and 20-Ampere Receptacles in a Wet Location.
    15- and 20-ampere, 125- and 250-volt receptacles installed in
    a wet location shall have an enclosure that is weatherproof
    whether or not the attachment plug cap is inserted. For other
    than one- or two-family dwellings, an outlet box hood installed
    for this purpose shall be listed, and where installed on
    an enclosure supported from grade as described in 314.23(B)
    or as described in 314.23(F) shall be identified as “extra-duty.”
    All 15- and 20-ampere, 125- and 250-volt nonlocking-type
    receptacles shall be listed weather-resistant type.


    All answers based on unamended National Electrical codes.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Tankless WH Receptacle Cover Plate

    It looks like it is inside the WH (under the cover) --not required..

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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Tankless WH Receptacle Cover Plate

    I would say that a "Damp"rated receptacle would be required.

    E4002.8 Damp locations. A receptacle installed outdoors in a location protected from the weather or in other damp locations shall have an enclosure for the receptacle that is weatherproof when the receptacle cover(s) is closed and an attachment plug cap is not inserted. An installation suitable for wet locations shall also be considered suitable for damp locations.

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    Default Re: Tankless WH Receptacle Cover Plate

    Quote Originally Posted by Roland Miller View Post
    It looks like it is inside the WH (under the cover) --not required..
    Even if you have an outlet on a covered porch it needs to be dam proof. Really little difference with a cover on a tankless WH and a roof over a covered porch. Granted, the WH has a lid that will close and cover it but it is still outside which is a damp location.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
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    Default Re: Tankless WH Receptacle Cover Plate

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    I would say that a "Damp"rated receptacle would be required.

    E4002.8 Damp locations. A receptacle installed outdoors in a location protected from the weather or in other damp locations shall have an enclosure for the receptacle that is weatherproof when the receptacle cover(s) is closed and an attachment plug cap is not inserted. An installation suitable for wet locations shall also be considered suitable for damp locations.

    I agree. However this was not the question

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  8. #8
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    Default Re: Tankless WH Receptacle Cover Plate

    I am pretty sure the answer is yes, it must have a cover plate listed for damp locations. Hard to tell from the answers here sometimes. They are certainly agathokakological . . .

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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Tankless WH Receptacle Cover Plate

    Is there a picture that shows more of the surrounding areas?

    All answers based on unamended National Electrical codes.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Tankless WH Receptacle Cover Plate

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
    Is there a picture that shows more of the surrounding areas?
    No. The unit is installed directly into a brick veneer exterior wall with no roof overhang.

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  11. #11
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    Default Re: Tankless WH Receptacle Cover Plate

    I wouldn't classify this as a damp location. It is not "partially protected", but fully protected by the WH cover. And even dry locations can be temporarily subject to dampness or wetness and still be a dry area. Let's not take the "C" out of Common Sense. Depending on the year of installation a damp area receptacle wouldn't even make sense given this.

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  12. #12
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    Default Re: Tankless WH Receptacle Cover Plate

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Miller View Post
    I am pretty sure the answer is yes, it must have a cover plate listed for damp locations. Hard to tell from the answers here sometimes. They are certainly agathokakological . . .
    I replied to the other half of the duplicate thread before I saw this half of it - yes, it is required, but that is not all that is required ...

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  13. #13
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    Default Re: Tankless WH Receptacle Cover Plate

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
    Is there a picture that shows more of the surrounding areas?
    Jim,
    this is a fairly typical N. TX ext. garage wall tankless poorly installed

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  14. #14

    Default Re: Tankless WH Receptacle Cover Plate

    Hmmm.. may not needed as long as the cover keeps it dry. Exterior panels, disconnects, garages, etc... But, should it be GFCI ?


    Andrew Constantine
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    Default Re: Tankless WH Receptacle Cover Plate

    Thanks Barry,

    Based on that picture I would say that a bubble cover would be needed and a WR receptacle along with GFI protection.

    All answers based on unamended National Electrical codes.

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    Default Re: Tankless WH Receptacle Cover Plate

    Quote Originally Posted by BARRY ADAIR View Post
    Jim,
    this is a fairly typical N. TX ext. garage wall tankless poorly installed
    Barry:

    At least, mine had a sediment trap.

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    Default Re: Tankless WH Receptacle Cover Plate

    It was not intended to be a duplicate thread. The site chose the very moment I pushed the post button to have a little database experience.

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  18. #18
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    Default Re: Tankless WH Receptacle Cover Plate

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Miller View Post
    Barry:

    At least, mine had a sediment trap.
    Aaron
    hard to beat a cash cow like that, short report
    all the best

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  19. #19
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tankless WH Receptacle Cover Plate

    The question was about the cover for the receptacle and my opinion is it does not need a water proof cover. It has one just about typical of an exterior electric panel.

    On the other hand I have always written up the need for GFCI protection which I always get the come back from fellow Home Inspectors (the ones that inspected for the builder in certain areas) that it is not needed. Unlike almost all electricians that have seen my write up have agreed that due to the particular circumstances in the area of use it does need GFCI protection and they always add the receptacle. Well almost all electricians. The builders hardly ever argue when I explain the reasoning to them, they stare off in the distance thinking about it and agree (not all of course).


  20. #20
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    Default Re: Tankless WH Receptacle Cover Plate

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Miller View Post
    Barry:

    At least, mine had a sediment trap.
    AM -

    Well, heck, you are in tall cotton with the sediment trap !!!

    Certainly can't expect both electrical and plumbing to be on par.


  21. #21
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    Default Re: Tankless WH Receptacle Cover Plate

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
    Thanks Barry,

    Based on that picture I would say that a bubble cover would be needed and a WR receptacle along with GFI protection.
    Jim,

    Don't forget about it also being TR.

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    Default Re: Tankless WH Receptacle Cover Plate

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Meier View Post
    Jim, are you saying that this receptacle will be subject to the saturation with water or other liquids, such as vehicle washing areas or it's in an unprotected locations exposed to weather? Doesn't this unit have a cover.
    I was basing that on this picture provided by Barry



    I don't see an exterior cover over the unit and can see rain hitting the exposed receptacle. If the cover was removed for the picture and is normally installed I would have a different opinion about the bubble cover.

    All answers based on unamended National Electrical codes.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Tankless WH Receptacle Cover Plate

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
    I don't see an exterior cover over the unit and can see rain hitting the exposed receptacle. If the cover was removed for the picture and is normally installed I would have a different opinion about the bubble cover.
    If that did have a cover which was removed, I would question whether or not the enclosure was listed and rated for that appliance to be installed in it, and, even without a cover, I am questioning: a) whether that enclosure is listed and rated for that appliance; and, b) whether or not that appliance is listed and rated to be installed in such an enclosure with the obvious lack of clearances around the appliance; and, c) if that enclosure is plastic and not metal ... I doubt that appliance is allowed in that enclosure.

    Then, there are all the other things I pointed out previously.

    And a cover would likely interfere with combustion air and venting.

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  24. #24
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    Default Re: Tankless WH Receptacle Cover Plate

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    If that did have a cover which was removed, I would question whether or not the enclosure was listed and rated for that appliance to be installed in it, and, even without a cover, I am questioning: a) whether that enclosure is listed and rated for that appliance; and, b) whether or not that appliance is listed and rated to be installed in such an enclosure with the obvious lack of clearances around the appliance; and, c) if that enclosure is plastic and not metal ... I doubt that appliance is allowed in that enclosure.

    Then, there are all the other things I pointed out previously.

    And a cover would likely interfere with combustion air and venting.
    They are metal and rated. I don't have a picture handy.T hey do have a louvered venst at the upper part of the door with the openings down as in the metal punched so it sheds rain. They seal about the same as an electric panel that is used at the exterior. Quite common on new homes here.


  25. #25
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    Default Re: Tankless WH Receptacle Cover Plate

    Obviously, well . . . maybe not for some of you, the cover was removed in order to take the photo of the offending receptacle plate. Yes, these tankless water heater units do come equipped with louvered covers. No, they are not similar to exterior electrical distribution panel covers. I have yet to see one of those that is louvered. Perhaps that would be because they are not gas-fired electrical distribution panels . . .

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  26. #26
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    Default Re: Tankless WH Receptacle Cover Plate

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Miller View Post
    Obviously, well . . . maybe not for some of you, the cover was removed in order to take the photo of the offending receptacle plate. Yes, these tankless water heater units do come equipped with louvered covers. No, they are not similar to exterior electrical distribution panel covers. I have yet to see one of those that is louvered. Perhaps that would be because they are not gas-fired electrical distribution panels . . .
    I meant covering as in protecting the unit from water


  27. #27
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    Default Re: Tankless WH Receptacle Cover Plate

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post
    They are metal and rated.
    They are rated ... for what and for what use?

    Is that water heater rated for use in that enclosure? Even if the enclosure is rated for exterior use, that water heater may not be rated for use in that enclosure for multiple reasons, such as insufficient room for combustion air, etc., (see my other post for some, but not all, possible concerns).

    If that water heater is rated for use outdoors, unless it is also rated for use in an enclosure, it may not be being used in accordance to its listing and labeling.

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  28. #28
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    Default Re: Tankless WH Receptacle Cover Plate

    While I did not find a unit which looked exactly like the unit in the photo, I did find several which looked very similar to it. Each of the ones I found require side clearances which vary from 1/2" to greater than 2" to non-combustible material, and they all stated side clearance of 6" to combustible material (which would be the framing inside the wall, possibly the insulation, etc.).

    Not sure if Barry did this or not, but when I see something like that with the installation instructions tucked into it, I skim through the installation instructions looking for obvious installation errors, such as is it allowed in that enclosure, top-bottom-back-and side clearances, etc..

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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