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  1. #1
    John Bernard's Avatar
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    Default AFCI and GFCI downstream in same circuit??

    I recently inspected a home where my client complained that everytime they tried to run a blender on the kitchen island a breaker in the panel tripped. (It did indeed trip every time we tried)

    Turns out that the breaker that tripped is an AFCI breaker. The circuit starts with the dining room outlets and then feeds a kitchen small appliance circuit through a GFCI breaker. The GFCI breaker tripped when tested from the kitchen outlets. I've never seen an AFCI circuit feeding a GFCI kitchen circuit before. Is this allowed?

    Thanks

    John

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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
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    Maryland
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    Default Re: AFCI and GFCI downstream in same circuit??

    Yes it is allowed.

    All answers based on unamended National Electrical codes.

  3. #3
    John Bernard's Avatar
    John Bernard Guest

    Default Re: AFCI and GFCI downstream in same circuit??

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Meier View Post
    Is it an AFCI or GFCI breaker?
    The AFCI breaker in the distribution panel trips. The GFCI breaker is installed in the kitchen back splash.

    BTW - The blender works fine when plugged into the other small appliance circuit in the kitchen. This circuit has a regular 20A breaker in the distribution panel


  4. #4
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    Mar 2007
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    Spring Hill (Nashville), TN
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    Default Re: AFCI and GFCI downstream in same circuit??

    Quote Originally Posted by John Bernard View Post
    The AFCI breaker in the distribution panel trips. The GFCI breaker is installed in the kitchen back splash.

    BTW - The blender works fine when plugged into the other small appliance circuit in the kitchen. This circuit has a regular 20A breaker in the distribution panel
    The blender has a problem, that is why the AFCI tripped....... Newer generation AFCI's do not nuisance trip like their older cousins. They can put in a new AFCI or buy a new blender and that should solve the problem.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  5. #5
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    Default Re: AFCI and GFCI downstream in same circuit??

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    The blender has a problem, that is why the AFCI tripped....... Newer generation AFCI's do not nuisance trip like their older cousins. They can put in a new AFCI or buy a new blender and that should solve the problem.
    I was going to say the same thing, but Scott beat me to it. Try a different blender first, or some other appliances at the same receptacle. It could be the appliance or the breaker, but it's a lot easier to test new appliances than it is to test a new breaker. The GFCI is most likely not a breaker, but just a GFCI receptacle, unless I misunderstand what you are describing.

    Jim Robinson
    New Mexico, USA

  6. #6
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    Default Re: AFCI and GFCI downstream in same circuit??

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Robinson View Post
    I was going to say the same thing, but Scott beat me to it. Try a different blender first, or some other appliances at the same receptacle. It could be the appliance or the breaker, but it's a lot easier to test new appliances than it is to test a new breaker. The GFCI is most likely not a breaker, but just a GFCI receptacle, unless I misunderstand what you are describing.
    Can't say I've ever seen an AFCI breaker installed on a kitchen circuit.


  7. #7
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    Default Re: AFCI and GFCI downstream in same circuit??

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Babcock View Post
    Can't say I've ever seen an AFCI breaker installed on a kitchen circuit.
    Not required if only in the kitchen SABC, but the OP said this circuit also served the dining room where AFCI protection is required.

    I believe this is going to change under the 2014 NEC in the continuing expansion of AFCI requirements.

    All answers based on unamended National Electrical codes.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Coquitlam, B.C., Canada
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    Default Re: AFCI and GFCI downstream in same circuit??

    Quote Originally Posted by John Bernard View Post
    I recently inspected a home where my client complained that everytime they tried to run a blender on the kitchen island a breaker in the panel tripped. (It did indeed trip every time we tried)

    Turns out that the breaker that tripped is an AFCI breaker. The circuit starts with the dining room outlets and then feeds a kitchen small appliance circuit through a GFCI breaker. The GFCI breaker tripped when tested from the kitchen outlets. I've never seen an AFCI circuit feeding a GFCI kitchen circuit before. Is this allowed?

    Thanks

    John
    In Canada, AFCI breakers for bedroom circuits only.


  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
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    Md and or PA
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    124

    Default Re: AFCI and GFCI downstream in same circuit??

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
    Not required if only in the kitchen SABC, but the OP said this circuit also served the dining room where AFCI protection is required.

    I believe this is going to change under the 2014 NEC in the continuing expansion of AFCI requirements.
    Jim
    You are quite correct !
    The AFCI requirements are changing in the 2014 NEC. They are adding Laundry rooms and Kitchens to the list. That means there will be a lot of AFCI Breakers or Receptacles installed.
    Think about the number of outlets in a kitchen ! ( remember the definition of outlet )
    refrigerators,dishwashers,disposals,lights,hoodfan s,receptacles,microwaves just to name a few


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