AFCI and GFCI downstream in same circuit??

John Bernard · 03-12-2013, 06:44 PM

I recently inspected a home where my client complained that everytime they tried to run a blender on the kitchen island a breaker in the panel tripped. (It did indeed trip every time we tried)

Turns out that the breaker that tripped is an AFCI breaker. The circuit starts with the dining room outlets and then feeds a kitchen small appliance circuit through a GFCI breaker. The GFCI breaker tripped when tested from the kitchen outlets. I've never seen an AFCI circuit feeding a GFCI kitchen circuit before. Is this allowed?

Thanks

John

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**Jim Port** · 03-12-2013, 06:49 PM

Yes it is allowed.

John Bernard · 03-13-2013, 05:35 AM

Originally Posted by Robert Meier

Is it an AFCI or GFCI breaker?

The AFCI breaker in the distribution panel trips. The GFCI breaker is installed in the kitchen back splash.

BTW - The blender works fine when plugged into the other small appliance circuit in the kitchen. This circuit has a regular 20A breaker in the distribution panel

**Scott Patterson** · 03-13-2013, 05:53 AM

Originally Posted by John Bernard

The AFCI breaker in the distribution panel trips. The GFCI breaker is installed in the kitchen back splash.

BTW - The blender works fine when plugged into the other small appliance circuit in the kitchen. This circuit has a regular 20A breaker in the distribution panel

The blender has a problem, that is why the AFCI tripped....... Newer generation AFCI's do not nuisance trip like their older cousins. They can put in a new AFCI or buy a new blender and that should solve the problem.

**Jim Robinson** · 03-13-2013, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by Scott Patterson

The blender has a problem, that is why the AFCI tripped....... Newer generation AFCI's do not nuisance trip like their older cousins. They can put in a new AFCI or buy a new blender and that should solve the problem.

I was going to say the same thing, but Scott beat me to it. Try a different blender first, or some other appliances at the same receptacle. It could be the appliance or the breaker, but it's a lot easier to test new appliances than it is to test a new breaker. The GFCI is most likely not a breaker, but just a GFCI receptacle, unless I misunderstand what you are describing.

**Ray Babcock** · 03-15-2013, 08:02 AM

Originally Posted by Jim Robinson

I was going to say the same thing, but Scott beat me to it. Try a different blender first, or some other appliances at the same receptacle. It could be the appliance or the breaker, but it's a lot easier to test new appliances than it is to test a new breaker. The GFCI is most likely not a breaker, but just a GFCI receptacle, unless I misunderstand what you are describing.

Can't say I've ever seen an AFCI breaker installed on a kitchen circuit.

**Jim Port** · 03-15-2013, 09:45 AM

Originally Posted by Ray Babcock

Can't say I've ever seen an AFCI breaker installed on a kitchen circuit.

Not required if only in the kitchen SABC, but the OP said this circuit also served the dining room where AFCI protection is required.

I believe this is going to change under the 2014 NEC in the continuing expansion of AFCI requirements.

**Dale Trach** · 03-15-2013, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by John Bernard

I recently inspected a home where my client complained that everytime they tried to run a blender on the kitchen island a breaker in the panel tripped. (It did indeed trip every time we tried)

Turns out that the breaker that tripped is an AFCI breaker. The circuit starts with the dining room outlets and then feeds a kitchen small appliance circuit through a GFCI breaker. The GFCI breaker tripped when tested from the kitchen outlets. I've never seen an AFCI circuit feeding a GFCI kitchen circuit before. Is this allowed?

Thanks

John

In Canada, AFCI breakers for bedroom circuits only.

**jack davenport** · 03-16-2013, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by Jim Port

Not required if only in the kitchen SABC, but the OP said this circuit also served the dining room where AFCI protection is required.

I believe this is going to change under the 2014 NEC in the continuing expansion of AFCI requirements.

Jim
You are quite correct !
The AFCI requirements are changing in the 2014 NEC. They are adding Laundry rooms and Kitchens to the list. That means there will be a lot of AFCI Breakers or Receptacles installed.
Think about the number of outlets in a kitchen ! ( remember the definition of outlet )
refrigerators,dishwashers,disposals,lights,hoodfan s,receptacles,microwaves just to name a few