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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Irvine, California
    Posts
    48

    Default this old main panel has double & triple tap

    As you see, 40amp breaker has 2,3 lines together red lines go to condenser unit but I don't know the blacks for.
    Any other violations you guys see in this panel?
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/20461733/201...2016.24.04.jpg

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/20461733/201...2016.24.58.jpg

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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Philadelphia PA
    Posts
    3,177

    Default Re: this old main panel has double & triple tap

    Aluminum wiring?

    "There is no exception to the rule that every rule has an exception." -James Thurber, writer and cartoonist (1894-1961)
    www.ArnoldHomeInspections.com

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Osceola, AR
    Posts
    310

    Default Re: this old main panel has double & triple tap

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Im View Post
    As you see, 40amp breaker has 2,3 lines together red lines go to condenser unit but I don't know the blacks for.
    Any other violations you guys see in this panel?
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/20461733/201...2016.24.04.jpg

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/20461733/201...2016.24.58.jpg
    Solid aluminum branch wiring is problematic. Many insurers have a big problem with it as the connections at splices, receptacles and switches are seldom done correctly and loose connections in AL wiring have been proven to be the cause of many residential fires.
    The AL wire to the 40 amp breaker is way undersized.
    The double and triple tap is obviously wrong, doubly wrong because mixing CU and AL wires.
    No antioxidant paste on AL wiring that I can see.
    Push to reset breakers are often an issue because of age, failure to reset. That isn't a Bulldog panel is it? Looks to be some other brand, maybe just in a different configuration that I haven't seen.

    Alton Darty
    ATN Services, LLC
    www.arinspections.com

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Irvine, California
    Posts
    48

    Default Re: this old main panel has double & triple tap

    Quote Originally Posted by Alton Darty View Post
    Solid aluminum branch wiring is problematic. Many insurers have a big problem with it as the connections at splices, receptacles and switches are seldom done correctly and loose connections in AL wiring have been proven to be the cause of many residential fires.
    The AL wire to the 40 amp breaker is way undersized.
    The double and triple tap is obviously wrong, doubly wrong because mixing CU and AL wires.
    No antioxidant paste on AL wiring that I can see.
    Push to reset breakers are often an issue because of age, failure to reset. That isn't a Bulldog panel is it? Looks to be some other brand, maybe just in a different configuration that I haven't seen.

    this is not the same figure with Bulldog panel that I 've seen before.

    there is some questions?

    1. why I can not see any wire to main breaker?
    2. What should I tell about Al. wiring? - hundreds of this condominium (1969 build) complex are all Al. wiring. Replace with CU.? Just watch out?
    Maybe my client will live in this home without peace of mind then,,,


  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Osceola, AR
    Posts
    310

    Default Re: this old main panel has double & triple tap

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Im View Post
    this is not the same figure with Bulldog panel that I 've seen before.

    there is some questions?

    1. why I can not see any wire to main breaker?
    2. What should I tell about Al. wiring? - hundreds of this condominium (1969 build) complex are all Al. wiring. Replace with CU.? Just watch out?
    Maybe my client will live in this home without peace of mind then,,,
    What should you tell about AL wiring?
    1. Your insurer may be among those who will refuse to cover the home at all or until proper repairs are made.
    2. AL wiring can be a fire hazard if the original installation was not done well. (from the photos this could very well be an issue in your case)
    3. AL wiring can be a hazard if improper repairs have been made. (again very likely from the photos)
    4. Al wiring can be a hazard if improper switches and receptacles were used at the original installation or in subsequent repairs.
    And the list goes on and on. Try http://inspectapedia.com/aluminum/aluminum.htm for some info on AL wiring, check the Mike Holt site for further, study up on the issue and be prepared to see this frequently.

    Your photos show a host of issues in the panel alone, it is very likely that other problems exist throughout. Undersized wires, double and triple taps, crowded panel with no room for expansion, grounds and neutrals on the same bar in a panel that most likely is not the service equipment. More than enough problems and issues to recommend repairs by a licensed and competent electrical contractor. Be sure to include something along the lines of "other issues will be brought to light as repairs are made". Document the issues, call for repairs and move on, do not try to recommend the manner of repairs.

    Alton Darty
    ATN Services, LLC
    www.arinspections.com

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    WESTMINSTER CO
    Posts
    1,088

    Default Re: this old main panel has double & triple tap

    are you a home inspector--if so you don't know about aluminum wiring-mis gauged wire and double taps==if you are you should know this like why the sky gets dark at night

    cvf


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Southern Vancouver Island
    Posts
    4,546

    Default Re: this old main panel has double & triple tap

    Google search Aluminum wiring, write a short story about it and give that to your client. The connections at all fixtures need to be inspected and repaired as needed. No doubt the guy that worked in this panel doesn't have a clue, so all the wiring needs to be checked for fire hazards.

    If this is an example of wiring in a condo building, yes everybody in the condo should have their panels inspected for fire hazards.

    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
    www.allsafehome.ca

  8. #8
    Daniel Mack's Avatar
    Daniel Mack Guest

    Default Re: this old main panel has double & triple tap

    Due to temperature change, vibration, and several other causes it is critical that any AL installation is done properly in the beginning and periodic inspection, re-torquing to specifications, and maintenance is performed. For this matter, it is a very good idea do do this with a copper installation too. My rule of thumb is every spring with changing out the detector batteries but be absolutely sure you know about all preliminary safety precautions or please call on a qualified person.


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