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  1. #1
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    Default WIRE NUT DOUBLE TAPPING BREAKERS

    GUYS

    is it ok to wire nut three circuits to one breaker and i know the top wire nut has upper size wire nutted with smaller gauge wire. wrote it up to have repaired by licensed electrician. think i made right call--but can ammend report not due till tomorrow.

    thjanks

    cvf

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: WIRE NUT DOUBLE TAPPING BREAKERS

    Unless there is AL mixed with copper under the wire nut and the breaker size is appropriate there is no issue.

    All answers based on unamended National Electrical codes.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: WIRE NUT DOUBLE TAPPING BREAKERS

    I would amend the report, unless there was a problem like those already posted.


  4. #4
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    Default Re: WIRE NUT DOUBLE TAPPING BREAKERS

    jack

    ok to have two different size wires nutted together ?

    cvf


  5. #5
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    Default Re: WIRE NUT DOUBLE TAPPING BREAKERS

    As long as the smallest or lowest rated wire is protected at its ampacity it is fine.

    All answers based on unamended National Electrical codes.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: WIRE NUT DOUBLE TAPPING BREAKERS

    Quote Originally Posted by CHARLIE VAN FLEET View Post
    GUYS

    is it ok to wire nut three circuits to one breaker and i know the top wire nut has upper size wire nutted with smaller gauge wire. wrote it up to have repaired by licensed electrician. think i made right call--but can ammend report not due till tomorrow.

    thjanks

    cvf
    It is only one circuit - not three


  7. #7
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    Default Re: WIRE NUT DOUBLE TAPPING BREAKERS

    That is the easy way to correct multiple tapped breaker terminals - connect the two-three-or more conductors to one new conductor with a properly sized wire nut connector and that one new conductor is then attached to the breaker.

    Given the correct conditions stated above: i.e., the smallest conductor rating matches the breaker rating; rated for the proper wire sizes; etc.; then all is okay.

    Also as stated in a post above, that is just one circuit.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
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  8. #8
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    Default Re: WIRE NUT DOUBLE TAPPING BREAKERS

    As long as the breaker is sized to the smallest conductor and the load doesn't exceed the breaker's handle rating your ok.


  9. #9
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    Default Re: WIRE NUT DOUBLE TAPPING BREAKERS

    ok thanks all got my answer


  10. #10
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    Default Re: WIRE NUT DOUBLE TAPPING BREAKERS

    Quote Originally Posted by Mbrooke View Post
    As long as the breaker is sized to the smallest conductor and the load doesn't exceed the breaker's handle rating your ok.
    Whoa! Just to clarify this because your post was right below the post below: the breaker size is *not* sized to fixture wires from any fixtures, the breaker is sized to the branch circuit conductor size/rating.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Meier View Post
    Yes, it's very common to have #16 or #18 AWG conductors in a fixture whip spliced to #12 or #10 branch circuit conductors using wire nuts.
    Don't want someone to get the idea that the breaker needs to be sized to 16 AWG 18 AWG fixture wires.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  11. #11
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    Default Re: WIRE NUT DOUBLE TAPPING BREAKERS

    When does wire nutting multiple conductors together become an issue? I see where there is multiple instances of this in same panel. Why would you ever need to add a new panel if you could just keep adding conductors to existing breakers. I am not an electrician and am trying to learn for my clients benefit. Thanks for any advice.

    Tom Rees / A Closer Look Home Inspection / Salt Lake City, Utah

  12. #12
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    Default Re: WIRE NUT DOUBLE TAPPING BREAKERS

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Whoa! Just to clarify this because your post was right below the post below: the breaker size is *not* sized to fixture wires from any fixtures, the breaker is sized to the branch circuit conductor size/rating.


    Don't want someone to get the idea that the breaker needs to be sized to 16 AWG 18 AWG fixture wires.
    Branch circuit wiring is rated for max distance for amperage of protection. Fixtures are rated differently and many times can utilize size smaller, very short distances so not much resistance, are designed and approved as such, etc. Circuit protection is more for the branch wiring in the structure to prevent overloading and causing fires, not so much for the protection of the device connected.


  13. #13
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    Default Re: WIRE NUT DOUBLE TAPPING BREAKERS

    Tom, the issue would be if someone tried to run too much off of the circuit. Simply having a splice does not mean there is too much load connected. The loading could be the same with a single conductor attached as multiples spliced at the panel. The usage determines the loads, not the number of wires. A branch circuit could go in multiple directions from a device or junction box anywhere in the circuit.

    Also certain circuits are required to be dedicated to certain areas and are not to be shared. Kitchen/dining receptacles, bathroom receptalces and laundry circuits are common ones.

    All answers based on unamended National Electrical codes.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: WIRE NUT DOUBLE TAPPING BREAKERS

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Clarke View Post
    Branch circuit wiring is rated for max distance for amperage of protection.
    "You got some 'splainin' to do ... " Huh?

    No, the rating is not based on "max distance".

    Fixtures are rated differently and many times can utilize size smaller, very short distances so not much resistance, are designed and approved as such, etc.
    If you have a fixture drawing 20 amps, you will not find #18 AWG conductors coming from it.

    Circuit protection is more for the branch wiring in the structure to prevent overloading and causing fires, not so much for the protection of the device connected.
    That is what I said: "the breaker is sized to the branch circuit conductor size/rating"

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
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  15. #15
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    Default Re: WIRE NUT DOUBLE TAPPING BREAKERS

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Clarke View Post
    Branch circuit wiring is rated for max distance for amperage of protection. Fixtures are rated differently and many times can utilize size smaller, very short distances so not much resistance, are designed and approved as such, etc. Circuit protection is more for the branch wiring in the structure to prevent overloading and causing fires, not so much for the protection of the device connected.
    Fixture wires normally have differnt insulation and sometimes different conductor materials. That is taken into account when sizing those fixture leads at the factory.


  16. #16
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    Default Re: WIRE NUT DOUBLE TAPPING BREAKERS

    Fixture wires are also sized based on the load expected to be imposed upon them.

    All answers based on unamended National Electrical codes.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: WIRE NUT DOUBLE TAPPING BREAKERS

    Quote Originally Posted by CHARLIE VAN FLEET View Post
    jack

    ok to have two different size wires nutted together ?

    cvf
    Wire nuts have a rating for how many of each AWG and in which combination the wires can be to comply with the listing for each size wire nut. This information is generally supplied on the packaging or the manufacturers web site.

    - - - Updated - - -


  18. #18
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    Default Re: WIRE NUT DOUBLE TAPPING BREAKERS

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Rees View Post
    When does wire nutting multiple conductors together become an issue? I see where there is multiple instances of this in same panel. Why would you ever need to add a new panel if you could just keep adding conductors to existing breakers. I am not an electrician and am trying to learn for my clients benefit. Thanks for any advice.
    Tom, besides what others have mentioned, one case where wire nutting multiple conductors in a service panel becomes a problem is when the max fill of the junction box (service panel in this case) is exceeded. This is usually not a problem in most newer panels, but could be a problem in some older panels that don't have much excess space to begin with.


  19. #19
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    Default Re: WIRE NUT DOUBLE TAPPING BREAKERS

    Would that not be in violation of using the panel board for a junction box? I understand the concept of using wire nuts in the panel board to extend wires or using them to correct double tapped overcurrent devices, but three wires to one seems like it would be using the panel board as a junction. Just curious.


  20. #20
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    Default Re: WIRE NUT DOUBLE TAPPING BREAKERS

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Hendrix View Post
    Would that not be in violation of using the panel board for a junction box? I understand the concept of using wire nuts in the panel board to extend wires or using them to correct double tapped overcurrent devices, but three wires to one seems like it would be using the panel board as a junction. Just curious.
    No, because you are only extending the conductors to the breakers.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  21. #21
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    Default Re: WIRE NUT DOUBLE TAPPING BREAKERS

    write it up


  22. #22
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    Default Re: WIRE NUT DOUBLE TAPPING BREAKERS

    Quote Originally Posted by frazier jeffery View Post
    write it up
    What aspect are you talking about writing up? The splices are allowed as has been said already in this thread.

    All answers based on unamended National Electrical codes.

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