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  1. #1
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    Default Electrical Box & Drain pipe close together

    Is there anything I can quote regarding the electric service and drain pipe being so close together? Thank in advance for any assistance



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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Electrical Box & Drain pipe close together

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Meier View Post
    According to the NEC the panel requires both a clear working space and a dedicated equipment space both of which are being infringed upon by the pipe. Here's some graphics from the NECH:




    Robert, THANK you sooo much for your research and the graphics. This is extremely helpful.
    Best Regards,
    Fidel

    Fidel F. Gonzales
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Electrical Box & Drain pipe close together

    This is the NEC code for the above drawings.

    From the 2008 NEC:
    - 110.26 Spaces About Electrical Equipment.

    - - Sufficient access and working space shall be provided and maintained about all electrical equipment to permit ready and safe operation and maintenance of such equipment.
    - - - (A) Working Space. Working space for equipment operating at 600 volts, nominal, or less to ground and likely to require examination, adjustment, servicing, or maintenance while energized shall comply with the dimensions of 110.26(A)(1), (A)(2), and (A)(3) or as required or permitted elsewhere in this Code.

    Table 110.26(A)(1)___|_______________________working Space
    ___________________|____________________Minimum Clear Distance
    ___________________|______________________________ ______________________________________
    ___________________|___Nom Voltage_____|_To Insulated___|__To Grounded_________|__To Live___
    ___________________|____To Ground______|___Surface_____|____Surface__________ _|___Parts____
    ___________________|__________________|___________ ____|_____________________|___________
    ___________________|______0-150________|____3 feet______|____3 feet____________|___3 feet___
    ___________________|_____151-600_______|____3 feet______|____3 feet 6 inches_____|___4 feet___

    (note, other sub-sections are there, but the above apply to the table above)

    Last edited by Jerry Peck; 05-16-2013 at 07:43 AM. Reason: added NEC code wording
    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: Electrical Box & Drain pipe close together

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Meier View Post
    Jerry gave you NEC 110.26(A), working space, which applies to the second graphic, also 110.26(E) dedicated equipment space, would apply to the first graphic.
    Correct.

    That is because it looks like that pipe is out from the wall, not in the dedicated space against the wall, but ... it might be against the wall, in which case the dedicated space would be applicable.

    I am going back and entering the text which precedes the table I entered in my previous post.

    From the 2008 NEC:
    - 110.26 Spaces About Electrical Equipment.
    - (continuing from my previous post)
    - - (E) Headroom. The minimum headroom of working spaces about service equipment, switchboards, panelboards, or motor control centers shall be 2.0 m (6 ft). Where the electrical equipment exceeds 2.0 m (6 ft) in height, the minimum headroom shall not be less than the height of the equipment.
    - - - Exception: In existing dwelling units, service equipment or panelboards that do not exceed 200 amperes shall be permitted in spaces where the headroom is less than 2.0 m (6 ft).
    - - (F) Dedicated Equipment Space. All switchboards, panelboards, distribution boards, and motor control centers shall be located in dedicated spaces and protected from damage.
    - - - Exception: Control equipment that by its very nature or because of other rules of the Code must be adjacent to or within sight of its operating machinery shall be permitted in those locations.
    - - - (1) Indoor. Indoor installations shall comply with 110.26(F)(1)(a) through (F)(1)(d).
    - - - - - (a) Dedicated Electrical Space. The space equal to the width and depth of the equipment and extending from the floor to a height of 1.8 m (6 ft) above the equipment or to the structural ceiling, whichever is lower, shall be dedicated to the electrical installation. No piping, ducts, leak protection apparatus, or other equipment foreign to the electrical installation shall be located in this zone.
    - - - - - - Exception: Suspended ceilings with removable panels shall be permitted within the 1.8-m (6-ft) zone.
    - - - - - (b) Foreign Systems. The area above the dedicated space required by 110.26(F)(1)(a) shall be permitted to contain foreign systems, provided protection is installed to avoid damage to the electrical equipment from condensation, leaks, or breaks in such foreign systems.
    - - - - - (c) Sprinkler Protection. Sprinkler protection shall be permitted for the dedicated space where the piping complies with this section.
    - - - - - (d) Suspended Ceilings. A dropped, suspended, or similar ceiling that does not add strength to the building structure shall not be considered a structural ceiling.
    - - - (2) Outdoor. Outdoor electrical equipment shall be installed in suitable enclosures and shall be protected from accidental contact by unauthorized personnel, or by vehicular traffic, or by accidental spillage or leakage from piping systems. The working clearance space shall include the zone described in 110.26(A). No architectural appurtenance or other equipment shall be located in this zone.

    Last edited by Jerry Peck; 05-16-2013 at 07:47 AM. Reason: (added NEC wording)
    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Electrical Box & Drain pipe close together

    Good job Robert. A picture is worth a thousand words.. Keep typing Jerry you have near 600 words left to catch up..

    "Get correct views of life, and learn to see the world in its true light. It will enable you to live pleasantly, to do good, and, when summoned away, to leave without regret. " Robert E. Lee

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Electrical Box & Drain pipe close together

    It's interesting that the drawings do not show the minimum space required in front of the service panel. Actually that space is the most important when working on the equipment.


  7. #7
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    Default Re: Electrical Box & Drain pipe close together

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Goeken View Post
    It's interesting that the drawings do not show the minimum space required in front of the service panel. Actually that space is the most important when working on the equipment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Meier View Post
    The required working space (30"wide X 36" deep) is shown in graphic #2. It graphic does not contain the 36" dimension because the working space can be 36", 42" or 48" depending on the different conditions outlined in Table 110.26(A)(1).
    Which is why I typed the following table (I copy and past code wording, but the tables do not copy and paste, so, yes, I typed it)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    This is the NEC code for the above drawings.

    From the 2008 NEC:
    - 110.26 Spaces About Electrical Equipment.

    - - Sufficient access and working space shall be provided and maintained about all electrical equipment to permit ready and safe operation and maintenance of such equipment.
    - - - (A) Working Space. Working space for equipment operating at 600 volts, nominal, or less to ground and likely to require examination, adjustment, servicing, or maintenance while energized shall comply with the dimensions of 110.26(A)(1), (A)(2), and (A)(3) or as required or permitted elsewhere in this Code.

    Table 110.26(A)(1)_|_________________working Space
    _________________|______________Minimum Clear Distance
    _________________|________________________________ __________________________
    _________________|_Nom Voltage__|_To Insulated__|__To Grounded______|__To Live___
    _________________|__To Ground___|___Surface___|__Surface___________|___Pa rts____
    _________________|_____________|_____________|____ _______________|___________
    _________________|__0-150______|___3 feet_____|____3 feet__________|___3 feet___
    _________________|__151-600____|___3 feet_____|____3 feet 6 inches__|___4 feet___

    (note, other sub-sections are there, but the above apply to the table above)


    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Electrical Box & Drain pipe close together

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Meier View Post
    The required working space (30"wide X 36" deep) is shown in graphic #2. It graphic does not contain the 36" dimension because the working space can be 36", 42" or 48" depending on the different conditions outlined in Table 110.26(A)(1).
    Actually the graphic is missing "something" to alert you to the requirement. Such as "See table xxx for working area". Or "36" minimum depending upon conditions". Or something.....
    They went to a lot of trouble to identify the other space requirements, with a lot of detail---I just commented they failed to treat this area as well as others. As you see, when the graphic is removed from the table it is not useful in defining the requirements.


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