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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Oregon
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    41

    Default GFCI required in outbuilding?

    Newer RV shop (man cave) built in 2008. All the interior outlets were not GFCI protected. None outside. The bathroom inside was GFCI protected though. shouldn't the interior outlets be also?!
    That's my understanding. In Oregon.

    Inspection Referral

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    1,898

    Default Re: GFCI required in outbuilding?

    Article 210.8 of the 08 NEC reads as follows:

    GFI protection for personnel.

    (A) dwelling Units. All 125v 15 and 20 amp receptacles installed in (1) through (8) shall have GFI protection

    (1) Bathrooms
    (2) Garages and accessory building that have a floor located at or below grade not intended as habitable rooms, and limited to storage areas, work areas, and areas of similar use.
    (3) Outdoors

    .............

    Sounds like it is not needed as this is a habitable space. I am assuming the area has heating, cooling etc.

    All answers based on unamended National Electrical codes.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Plano, Texas
    Posts
    4,170

    Default Re: GFCI required in outbuilding?

    If it has a use as a garage (think overhead or sliding doors that admit vehicles) it is a garage no matter what cute name they put on it. If it is a recreation room intended for habitable interior space then no.
    All exterior outlets should be GFCI protected.

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Plano, Texas

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Oregon
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    41

    Default Re: GFCI required in outbuilding?

    This is a 32X24 shop with a concrete slab floor. Conventional framing with insulation. No sheetrock. RV door and man door. No heat. Bathroom in the back. Do the outlets inside the shop need to be GFCI protected. I understand the above grade thing, but how does that differ from a garage with a concrete slab that IS required to have the outlets protected? Thanks in advance
    steve


  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    1,898

    Default Re: GFCI required in outbuilding?

    That does not sound like a habitable room. I would say the GFI protection would be required.

    All answers based on unamended National Electrical codes.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    41

    Default Re: GFCI required in outbuilding?

    No exterior outlets, just interior. Should the interior outlets be required? Like a garage. And yes for all intent and purpose it is a big garage / shop.


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    58

    Default Re: GFCI required in outbuilding?

    If there is the possibility for water to be on the ground at any time which in a garage or shop there is, its a write up period. NEXT!


  8. #8
    Leigh Goodman's Avatar
    Leigh Goodman Guest

    Default Re: GFCI required in outbuilding?

    [QUOTE=Steve C.;229879]This is a 32X24 shop with a concrete slab floor.

    Don't need to quote code. Not allowed to quote code in Ky.
    Recommend that receptacles addressed from concrete floor be GFCI protected


  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    michigan
    Posts
    421

    Default Re: GFCI required in outbuilding?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve C. View Post
    Newer RV shop (man cave) built in 2008. All the interior outlets were not GFCI protected. None outside. The bathroom inside was GFCI protected though. shouldn't the interior outlets be also?!
    That's my understanding. In Oregon.
    Always depends on what code was in effect in this area at time of construction (2008).


  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Southern Vancouver Island
    Posts
    4,546

    Default Re: GFCI required in outbuilding?

    Much debate over a $15 item that keeps people safe. Just tell them to install GFCI's and move on.

    I was out in my shop tuning in my 1951 Panda AM radio and got a nasty shock from one of the chassis screws. I was standing on a concrete slab, you see. That is why they should have GFCI's, not because a rule required it.

    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
    www.allsafehome.ca

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    58

    Default Re: GFCI required in outbuilding?

    Here in the great state of Texas we are required by the state to write up safety issues regardless of any code then or now. If its a known or potential "wet area" which all outbuildings are considered that aren't living quarters then they are required to have GFCI protected outlets inside as well as out just like a garage. Again if you put a note stating that no GFCI protected outlets were noted your not really saying one way or the other its wrong your just stating you didn't note any right? You made them aware there isn't any and documented it. If someone is electrocuted a week, month or six years later because of it, it wont come back to bite you.


  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    41

    Default Re: GFCI required in outbuilding?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Kogel View Post
    Much debate over a $15 item that keeps people safe. Just tell them to install GFCI's and move on.

    I was out in my shop tuning in my 1951 Panda AM radio and got a nasty shock from one of the chassis screws. I was standing on a concrete slab, you see. That is why they should have GFCI's, not because a rule required it.
    I totally understand and agree. However: it's all in how we word our narratives. If I tell them they need to be installed and find out they really don't; then I get raked over the coals by the owner (seller) and the realtor(s) If I say I recommend it as a safety preventative measure, then I feel I've pointed it out and given a professional recommendation. They still however; will always ask me if it's required. And, I would still like to give them a definitive answer. Thanks for the input.


  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    58

    Default Re: GFCI required in outbuilding?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve C. View Post
    I totally understand and agree. However: it's all in how we word our narratives. If I tell them they need to be installed and find out they really don't; then I get raked over the coals by the owner (seller) and the realtor(s) If I say I recommend it as a safety preventative measure, then I feel I've pointed it out and given a professional recommendation. They still however; will always ask me if it's required. And, I would still like to give them a definitive answer. Thanks for the input.
    Dont say they need to be installed, say they are not installed and they are a safety device and you recommend them for safety, if a realtor asks if its required just say that's up to the person who has to live with the consequence of someone getting hurt if they aren't. As an inspector I don't care if they make the change or not, I'm just pointing out the potential danger, the ball is now in their court to do or not what they are comfortable with. I'm giving them knowledge to do with what they wish, that's why I assume they hired me to educate them about the property. That pretty much should end the conversation I would bet.


  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    41

    Default Re: GFCI required in outbuilding?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Starkey View Post
    Dont say they need to be installed, say they are not installed and they are a safety device and you recommend them for safety, if a realtor asks if its required just say that's up to the person who has to live with the consequence of someone getting hurt if they aren't. As an inspector I don't care if they make the change or not, I'm just pointing out the potential danger, the ball is now in their court to do or not what they are comfortable with. I'm giving them knowledge to do with what they wish, that's why I assume they hired me to educate them about the property. That pretty much should end the conversation I would bet.
    True: Don't you love it when someone asks "is it code?"
    Thanks again


  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    58

    Default Re: GFCI required in outbuilding?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Meier View Post
    We know that the NEC is a minimum standard but if you recommend something that is not required don't you end up with the problems that Steve mentioned?
    I usually don't because I have a conversation with the client about it before they read it in the report and explain that its a safety concern or what ever the case may be. I then explain that nothing has to be repaired by the seller, its all negotiable but I'm giving them the info in case they decide its something they want to do once they move in. Most people get it, including the agent. Luckily here in Texas most safety items we are required to write up in our reports so if a realtor asks (most don't anymore) we just tell them that its required by TREC who they are also licensed by and the get it.


  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Wenatchee Wa
    Posts
    301

    Default Re: GFCI required in outbuilding?

    In Washington St. we are required to recommend installation of GFCI (or AFCI) where required. So knowing where they are required is required ; )


    From the Wash. SOP
    Report
    the location of any inoperative or missing GFCI and/or AFCI devices when they are recommended by industry standards.

    Don Hester
    NCW Home Inspections, LLC
    Wa. St. Licensed H I #647, WSDA #80050, http://www.ncwhomeinspections.com

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