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  1. #1
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    Default Separate building

    I just built a shop on my property and was going to run a 100 amp service to it. While doing so research I found out that May have to run a second ground from the panel in the shop to the main box on the house. Can anyone give some insite on this. Also there is only one lug for the bare ground.

    Last edited by Tripp Bailey; 08-31-2013 at 06:30 PM. Reason: Spelling
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Separate building

    Quote Originally Posted by Tripp Bailey View Post
    I just built a shop on my property and was going to run a 100 amp service to it. While doing so research I found out that May have to run a second ground from the panel in the shop to the main box on the house. Can anyone give some insite on this. Also there is only one lug for the bare ground.
    Need a couple of things verified.

    You mention running a 100 amp service.

    1) Is this a separate service with it's own utility meter and service equipment? If so, then you ground at the service equipment.

    or

    2) Is this fed from the service at the house? If so, you would probably use a feeder cable that includes a ground back to the service equipment. I believe a grounding electrode is also required at the shop.

    This should be done by a licensed and qualified electrical contractor. I cannot stress how important grounding and bonding is. Few things in an electrical system are more difficult to understand than grounding. Make sure it is done correctly and hire a contractor, please.

    Department of Redundancy Department
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Separate building

    "While doing so research I found out that May have to run a second ground from the panel in the shop to the main box on the house."


    I am not sure what research you have done but either I do not understand t your question or you do not understand the subject matter (this actually is a difficult area to understand).

    first - this is not amature night work and I have some real concerns regarding your understanding of electrical work

    1. You are talking about 100 amp load (which can do some serious damage if not done right)
    2, It sounds as if you are coming off the main box in the house ?
    3. you do not say how far this run is (different than the distance from the shop to the house)
    4. you did not specify voltage
    5. you have not said what the electrical service is at the house

    All these questions suggest that although you would like to do it yourself - But I see way too many dangers for you to engineer this circuit and actually install it.

    I suggest the following

    1) look for a buddy who is an electrician or find an electrician who is willing let you help
    2) You can do the hard work , like dig the trench for the conduit
    3) make the electrician sandwiches and cookies (they always like cookies )

    I am really concerned because you like a fish that is too far out of water , you have some knowledge but worse it is only enough to get you into real trouble - or killed.

    please - do not be insulted - I have serious concerns for you safety based on what you have told us.


  4. #4
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    Default Re: Separate building

    Tripp,
    Here a site to go to. It should be able to answer your questions. Like Dwight said you do have to account for several factors, such as length of run. Give this PDF a good read.

    http://www.prospex.us/DOCS/ELECTRICA...OUNDING%20.pdf


  5. #5
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    Aug 2013
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    Effingham
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    Default Re: Separate building

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Doane View Post
    "While doing so research I found out that May have to run a second ground from the panel in the shop to the main box on the house."


    I am not sure what research you have done but either I do not understand t your question or you do not understand the subject matter (this actually is a difficult area to understand).

    first - this is not amature night work and I have some real concerns regarding your understanding of electrical work

    1. You are talking about 100 amp load (which can do some serious damage if not done right)
    2, It sounds as if you are coming off the main box in the house ?
    3. you do not say how far this run is (different than the distance from the shop to the house)
    4. you did not specify voltage
    5. you have not said what the electrical service is at the house

    All these questions suggest that although you would like to do it yourself - But I see way too many dangers for you to engineer this circuit and actually install it.

    I suggest the following

    1) look for a buddy who is an electrician or find an electrician who is willing let you help
    2) You can do the hard work , like dig the trench for the conduit
    3) make the electrician sandwiches and cookies (they always like cookies )

    I am really concerned because you like a fish that is too far out of water , you have some knowledge but worse it is only enough to get you into real trouble - or killed.

    please - do not be insulted - I have serious concerns for you safety based on what you have told us.


    Ok no harm done. On the other hand Im running a 220 v line from my main on the house to my shop which is about 120' away. I plan on using 6-6-6 gage wire. I'm only running some small power tools and two flurcesent lights and maybe a 6000 btu AC unit in the future. I so have a family member that has industrial electrical experience but we are unsure of the code relating to the second ground wire. The breaker box I got only has one spot for a ground wire. And also what size does the second ground need to be.


  6. #6
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    Oct 2008
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    Tulsa, OK
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    Default Re: Separate building

    Quote Originally Posted by Tripp Bailey View Post
    Ok no harm done. On the other hand Im running a 220 v line from my main on the house to my shop which is about 120' away. I plan on using 6-6-6 gage wire. I'm only running some small power tools and two flurcesent lights and maybe a 6000 btu AC unit in the future. I so have a family member that has industrial electrical experience but we are unsure of the code relating to the second ground wire. The breaker box I got only has one spot for a ground wire. And also what size does the second ground need to be.

    OK--You need 2-ungrounded conductors and a grounded (could be a neutral) conductor. Along with that you will need an equipment grounding conductor (green or green tape) sized according to the breaker that feed the shop. #8 copper or #6 Aluminum for a 100 amp breaker. BUT the #6 Aluminum? is only good for 40 amps so A #10 copper or a #8 aluminum equipment grounding conductor. And there are lots of other things to know about this installation to make it correct..

    "Get correct views of life, and learn to see the world in its true light. It will enable you to live pleasantly, to do good, and, when summoned away, to leave without regret. " Robert E. Lee

  7. #7
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    Snowbird (this means I'm retired and migrate between locations), FL/MI
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    Default Re: Separate building

    Quote Originally Posted by Tripp Bailey View Post
    I just built a shop on my property and was going to run a 100 amp service to it. While doing so research I found out that May have to run a second ground from the panel in the shop to the main box on the house. Can anyone give some insite on this. Also there is only one lug for the bare ground.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tripp Bailey
    Ok no harm done. On the other hand Im running a 220 v line from my main on the house to my shop which is about 120' away. I plan on using 6-6-6 gage wire. I'm only running some small power tools and two flurcesent lights and maybe a 6000 btu AC unit in the future. I so have a family member that has industrial electrical experience but we are unsure of the code relating to the second ground wire. The breaker box I got only has one spot for a ground wire. And also what size does the second ground need to be.
    What country you in? (I.E. where in the world...there are a few locations named "Effingham"!)

    Such as:

    Effingham, Bourough of Guildford, Surrey, (England) U.K.

    Effingham, Ontario, Canada

    A few EffinghamS in the U.S. of A.:

    Effingham, IL, Effingham, KS, Effingham, NH, Effingham, SC, and Effingham Co. GA

    and if memory serves correctly..an area called Effingham in NZ and one in NSW...

    And its doubtful you are looking to "add" a "Service", but to run a main power feeder to the separate structure.

    How that may be done depends on the circumstances and location (geographically).

    Things to consider are buried or ariel conductors, presence of livestock, lightning, presence of additional metalic connections (such as water lines, telephone/communications/alarm cables, fuel lines, antena, etc. and the power standard/supply, and the type of "shop" (hazards; e.g., classification corrosives, caustics, flamables, salts, explosives, dusts, etc.) distance, building construction and finish materials, distance from source, the type of equipment/loads utilized (ex. welders, motors, (inductive vs. resistive loads, etc. load calculations (cont. vs. non-cont.) proximity to bodies of water/tidal, ground water level, and others.

    AFAIK, everywhere requires some sort of permit from an authority to electrify a structure.

    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 09-01-2013 at 02:44 PM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
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    Massacusetts
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    Default Re: Separate building

    Quote Originally Posted by Tripp Bailey View Post
    Ok no harm done. On the other hand Im running a 220 v line from my main on the house to my shop which is about 120' away. I plan on using 6-6-6 gage wire. I'm only running some small power tools and two flurcesent lights and maybe a 6000 btu AC unit in the future. I so have a family member that has industrial electrical experience but we are unsure of the code relating to the second ground wire. The breaker box I got only has one spot for a ground wire. And also what size does the second ground need to be.

    I am really concerned Tripp. This is a large amount of power and not a 20 A circuit. My personal recommendation due to the (size and load) is to install a separate service all together - This could work out tax wise too (deduct your shop electrical expense).

    100 Amp @ 220 VAC is what most homes have but I am more concerned that you will run into a situation with main at your house that

    1) can't handle the load
    2) the main has other issues
    3) it is not properly grounded

    Tripp as gaze into my crystal monitor (kinda like my crystal ball) I am seeing too many problems that you are not prepared for. Take Gunners advice - get an electrical contractor in , get it done right and don't die, burn down the house or electrocute your neighbors dog. Then Set up some sort of business that runs out of the shop and deduct the contractor and electric bill (also this will save your bacon if you have a fire and need to collect from an insurance company - who could deny a claim (even if started by your grill) because you did not have a permit for the work and it was not done by a licensed electrician.


  9. #9
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    Dec 2008
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    Maryland
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    Default Re: Separate building

    Quote Originally Posted by Garry Sorrells View Post
    Tripp,
    Here a site to go to. It should be able to answer your questions. Like Dwight said you do have to account for several factors, such as length of run. Give this PDF a good read.

    http://www.prospex.us/DOCS/ELECTRICA...OUNDING%20.pdf

    TRIPP, guess you didn't look at PDF.... Take a look at pages 13 to 19, and read through entire PDF to get a better understanding of what and why you will do what you end up doing...

    Your code concern is a local issue, so make the call to your local code office. Best and shortest way to get the answer you need.

    As for "family member that has industrial electrical experience" I would read that as not an electrician. Industrial and residential are two different worlds and can be confusing to mingle. Just a warning.


    6-6-6 with a grounding rod is what your thinking of and may not work for local code.


  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
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    Rock Hill S.C.
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    94

    Default Re: Separate building

    For others doing some reacherch and may read this thread.....


    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Doane View Post

    100 Amp @ 220 VAC is what most homes have....
    Most newer homes have a 200 amp service (some older homes would be the exception), all homes have 240 VAC

    Quote Originally Posted by Garry Sorrells View Post

    6-6-6 with a grounding rod is what your thinking of and may not work for local code.
    Will not work for a sub panel as 4 conductors are required.


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