Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: Old panel?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    2

    Default Old panel?

    Has anyone seen an old panel like this one on the right? I wasn't even able to open the cover, I have never seen one like it. Should there also be a main breaker for the sub panel next to it or no?

    elect1.jpg
    elect.jpg

    F.I.R.E. Services

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,248

    Default Re: Old panel?

    Looks to be an old safety switch. Most often used as a main service disconnect for an installation like yours shown. There should have been a handle on the right to operate the disconnect - most of those have door locks which lock the door closed when the disconnect is switched 'on' and must be switched to 'off' before the door can be opened.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    2

    Default Re: Old panel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Looks to be an old safety switch. Most often used as a main service disconnect for an installation like yours shown. There should have been a handle on the right to operate the disconnect - most of those have door locks which lock the door closed when the disconnect is switched 'on' and must be switched to 'off' before the door can be opened.

    Thanks Jerry,

    That would explain it. So the main panel's main breaker is separate from the panel..


  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,248

    Default Re: Old panel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Josh Drake View Post
    So the main panel's main breaker is separate from the panel..
    Instead of using the term "main panel" why not use the terms: "service equipment" (that would be what that switch is, and, yes, it contains the main disconnect, which is why it is the service equipment) and "remote panel", "downstream panel", or just plain "panel" to indicate that "the panel" is separate and remote/downstream from the service equipment.

    The downstream panel on the left would require an insulated neutral which was isolated from ground in that panel.

    The neutral would be bonded to ground in the service equipment, and the service equipment is the only place the neutral is allowed to be bonded to the panel.

    If you think of those two in the photo as "service equipment" (on the right) and the "panel" (on the left), then it is easy to recognize that the panel does not require a main disconnect and is allowed to have more than 6 breakers, that is (of course) presuming that the service equipment on the right is still being used (looks like it is still being used, and the fact that it was 'on' and locked closed also indicates that it is still being used), and that the panel requires the neutral to be isolated from ground.

    What will follow will be a barrage of posts saying that 'they' understand the terms 'main panel' and 'service equipment', but their argument flies in the face of installations like the one in your photo as their meaning and understanding of 'main panel' is not applicable to that panel on the left. Let the fun begin.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Southern Vancouver Island
    Posts
    4,546

    Default Re: Old panel?

    One reason to get that fuse box open is to see if the correct fuses have been installed.
    We would need to see the fuses inside to determine the service size.
    Hey, what if in place of fuses, Billy Bob has made jumpers with copper pipe?

    I have no beef with old fuses if they are the correct size. They will blow when overloaded, regardless of their age.

    I have no trouble naming the service disconnect and that other thing.

    Afraid the resolution is a bit low.

    ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images
    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
    www.allsafehome.ca

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    261

    Default Re: Old panel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    - most of those have door locks which lock the door closed when the disconnect is switched 'on' and must be switched to 'off' before the door can be opened.
    I agree the main fuse sizes and interior wiring is very important but I don't open them for this reason.

    I usually see this in old multi-unit bldgs. and not in single family homes.

    Mike Lamb
    Inspection Connection, Inc.
    http://www.inspection2020.com/

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Atlanta, Georgia
    Posts
    1,078

    Default Re: Old panel?

    There are enough issues in the panel on the left that an electrcian needs to be dispatched.

    "The Code is not a peak to reach but a foundation to build from."

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,248

    Default Re: Old panel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Ramsey View Post
    There are enough issues in the panel on the left that an electrcian needs to be dispatched.
    Bruce,

    In just a very quick glance I saw multiple tapping and a ground connected to the neutral bar (which is required to be isolated from ground).

    Not sure what a better look would reveal but that right there should be enough to bring the electrician out for correction, and, while the electrician is there they may as well turn off the power and look in the service equipment as there will likely be things in there (not only based on what is visible in the panel on the left, but for the reasons given by others in previous posts below).

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    South-West Michigan
    Posts
    469

    Default Re: Old panel?

    Since the "main disconnect" and the panel to the left are bonded electrically by the metal conduit, will the floating neutral still be required on the panel to the left?

    Randall Aldering GHI BAOM MSM
    Housesmithe Inspection
    www.housesmithe.com

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,248

    Default Re: Old panel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Aldering View Post
    Since the "main disconnect" and the panel to the left are bonded electrically by the metal conduit, will the floating neutral still be required on the panel to the left?
    .Yes.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •