Thread: Frank Adams Electric fuse panel

Wonder if anyone has ever been around or involved with fuse panels? Especially one that were in home in 40's?

I dont know much about those panels in particular but IMO they are much like all fuse panels of that era. In general fuse panels when not continually overloaded or over-fused are trouble free.

If the panel is free of code violations or defects it should be ok as long as the house has no major electrical demand.

Any pics just in case?

yeah I will try to send pictures soon as possible. House was built around mid 40's. I will try to explain what goes were. If this was a panel of today style I would not have trouble don't have understanding of the old ones. I have had no issues out of it but I am wanting to add a 110 volt plug in process of moving my Refrigerator. Thanks for any help to provide information.

Hope this load up pic ok never done this before Thanks

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Originally Posted by Rose Hallman

Hope this load up pic ok never done this before Thanks

here another one

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Originally Posted by Rose Hallman

yeah I will try to send pictures soon as possible. House was built around mid 40's. I will try to explain what goes were. If this was a panel of today style I would not have trouble don't have understanding of the old ones. I have had no issues out of it but I am wanting to add a 110 volt plug in process of moving my Refrigerator. Thanks for any help to provide information.

here another one

Originally Posted by Rose Hallman

yeah I will try to send pictures soon as possible. House was built around mid 40's. I will try to explain what goes were. If this was a panel of today style I would not have trouble don't have understanding of the old ones. I have had no issues out of it but I am wanting to add a 110 volt plug in process of moving my Refrigerator. Thanks for any help to provide information.

I am not sure how to post my pictures soon I do I get them to you

Typically, but not always, the old fuse panels were service equipment panels. Meaning that those panels contained the main service disconnects.

Some had a knife switch as the main disconnect, after the knife switch would be the main service fuses, and after the main fuses would be the fuse panel with all the fuses for the branch circuits.

Some had a knife switch, main service fuses, then a breaker panel instead of a fuse panel.

The most common type of fuse panel had two, three, or four pullouts (two pullouts was the most common type). The pullouts were the main disconnects with one of the pullouts being labeled "Main" and fed the fuse panel below it.

The other pullouts were, typically, range, water heater, well pump, and (depends on what they had).

Being service equipment meant that the neutral was not insulated to the fuse panel and that the neutral in the fuse panel was permanently attached to ground (the enclosure).

The OP needs a circuit for a fridge.

If there is one fuse socket not being used, then it is easy for an electrician to add a 15 amp circuit for the fridge.

If all the sockets are being used, have an electrician install a breaker panel.

If all the round sockets have fuses in them, an electrician can sometimes arrange things to free up a socket for a fuse for the fridge. But if the service is 60+ years old you should have it checked by a professional for safety.

Thanks for help I am trying one more time to upload some pictures thanks again The Panel on the Bottom is Breaker Box for A/C and Heat Pump Package unit and its coming straight out of the 200AMp switch Box on the Upper right. There is no wire connected to the missing Fuses. Wire were taken off after whoever install the A/C They went to 240 volt 3000 amp wall heater. But am not sure how they were ran being 240 volts at 3000 amps which draws about 12.5 amps. They may not have been ????? not sure but they once were used for sure. Of of a place were it was recommed to have only 15 amp fuses in the middle panel. I can say this I have check wiring and it looks good to be this old plus box looks good but whom am I say say. Give back any replies all will be taken in Just looking for help Thanks again. If right when I put my meter on the ones that is not connect to anything then to ground/Neutral screw this mean they need to be connected on the neutral bar so they can have current flowing through them. This is what the meter seems to tell me or I may not be looking at it correct. Thanks again trying to give all the information I can so you can understand what am trying to do........

I see (actually what I don't see is the concern) some questionable wiring in those photos - the parts I am looking at are not well represented in those photos, but what I do see is the lack of an insulated neutral where there should be an insulated neutral.

Looks to me as though that service has undergone a few changes over the years and those changes may have done more harm than good ... definitely needs a knowledgeable electrical contractor to see first hand what is there (and what is not there) and make recommendations based on what they find.

The neutral that are not insulated has to do with the two bottom fuse are ran to Dyer to get 240 volts they had to use to hot wires and they ran ground to neutral bar/Ground. Is this a bad thing??? If so a license electrician did it so I assume it was good to go. This was done 15 years ago.

Originally Posted by Rose Hallman

The neutral that are not insulated has to do with the two bottom fuse are ran to Dyer to get 240 volts they had to use to hot wires and they ran ground to neutral bar/Ground. Is this a bad thing???

There are some fuses (at least there are fuse holders) for 120 volt circuits at the bottom of that box and those potential circuits would require a insulated neutral.

One option might be to remove the fuse holder shells and the tabs out to the center of those holders thereby eliminating those from ever having fuses in them for 120 volt circuits. Of course, though, that would then alter that fuse panel from its UL listing and would (should any way) lead to replacing that fuse panel with a 240 volt disconnect only for the dryer.

By the way "the two bottom fuse are ran to Dyer", are you referring the screw in fuses? Those should not be used for 240 volt circuits anyway.

So am assuming that your advice is to get a 240 volt disconnect for the dyer. Then make all the others 15 amp screw in fuse's???? This is why am asking is am assume this is what you are saying. Plus I need to make sure all neutral wire are insulated. Am I correct??????? Reason asking is am on a limit budget since 2011 I lost my job after 32 years after it move to Mexico. I want to be safe but I also have money to make it this way. Trying to explain everything so you no were I am coming from Thanks again O yes am not sure why the Electrician did what he did but he was license electrician her in Decatur Al. I thought it was OK since it cost good bit to get him to run dyer connection to another room. Not wanting to change out the panel they run about 800.00 dollars. If I have electrician do it it would run 1200.00 to 1500.00 that if everything went to plans.

Originally Posted by Rose Hallman

So am assuming that your advice is to get a 240 volt disconnect for the dyer. Then make all the others 15 amp screw in fuse's????

Partially right - replace that fuse box with the pullouts with a 240 disconnect.

The other fuses in that old pullout fuse box *must not* be used for 15 amp fuses and circuits because there is no insulated neutral.

Plus I need to make sure all neutral wire are insulated. Am I correct???????

All neutrals are required to be insulated ... except for the neutral which is part of the service entrance conductor cable which goes from the meter outside to the first disconnect (which I suspect is that large disconnect on the right). The neutral in that service entrance cable is permitted to be uninsulated, it is also permitted to be insulated (just not required to be insulated in service entrance cable).

Before changing anything, I recommend having an electrical contractor personally standing there looking at it (they can see it better than we can in photos) and then tell you what needs to be done and if you can do it in phases, and what is unsafe about what they see - there is no comparing looking at photos over the internet with someone there standing in front of the electrical panels.

The person standing there may see something not visible in the photos and they may say 'See this, this was done to correct ... blah, blah, blah ... and that makes this installation okay with that change.' Or they might say 'Oh, yeah, I see what those guys were talking/asking about, and, yes, you really need to correct it.'.

Just do not know from here ... my X-Ray glasses broke, my cape tore, and they took away all the phone booths - what to do now?

Can I take out the middle fuse box and put in a 100 amp breaker box in its place?

Originally Posted by Rose Hallman

Can I take out the middle fuse box and put in a 100 amp breaker box in its place?

I would take it all out and update it.

Originally Posted by Tom Rees

I would take it all out and update it.

Here in Florida the 5 point inspection (insurance) would fail based on the age of the box and that it is fused.

The issue is not code or anything else, it is that one would not be insurable until the box is replaced with current code breaker systems. So, unless one was purchasing for cash and did not want insurance the main would have to be replaced to be insured.

In Florida we seem to see a lot of "legislation by commercial requirement" such as insurance companies etc. While a pool built in the 1950's met and still meets the codes even though there is no safety fence and a diving board exists, I guaranty that within 30 days the Insurance company will give an "eyes on" examination and notify that one's diving board must be removed and that the pool must have a safety fence or insurance will be cancelled.

Maybe a good idea for insurance companies and possibly for the owner in the long term but I hate commercially based "legislation".