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  1. #1
    Clay White's Avatar
    Clay White Guest

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Santa Rosa, CA
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    2,285

    Default Re: Electrical grid?

    Might make the entire house (or at least the crawlspace area) into a handy Faraday cage.

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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Rockwall Texas
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    4,517

    Default Re: Electrical grid?

    Clay,

    I've never seen the metal mesh your talking of. Most I've seen is a plastic webbing material.

    As far as the wiring, I'd comment about the metal straps also. Most electricians would just use a piece of scrap NM cable to secure the wires with.

    I've attached your picture only to show you that I personally think that any inspector who sees the cardboard tubing material left on the outside of concrete piers should make a comment about it needing to be removed.

    Termites are attracted to this material and when you have no shields present on the piers, its buffet time for the critters.

    PC license or not, I'd would still comment on it as needing to be removed.

    JMHO
    Rick

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  4. #4
    Jon Randolph's Avatar
    Jon Randolph Guest

    Default Re: Electrical grid?

    Quote Originally Posted by Clay White View Post

    I'm not sure but I'd be willing to bet these are termite tunnels....on new construction!

    Also, do you guys write for repair the lack of a moisture barrier on the ground, I know that is code somewhere in the book.
    Looks like shelter tubes to me.

    What about the bearing of that girder on the concrete column?


  5. #5
    Jon Randolph's Avatar
    Jon Randolph Guest

    Default Re: Electrical grid?

    Yes, I do call for a vapor barrier and I specify that it should be installed ON THE GROUND.


  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Ormond Beach, Florida
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    Default Re: Electrical grid?

    At the very least I would want that metal grid bonded to the grounding electrode system.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Reno, Nv. - Now St. Louis, Mo.
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    369

    Default Re: Electrical grid?

    Once again, we find an example of where 'trade practice' and 'code' are a bit different. Remember, codes are but minimal safety standards .... and are not intended to address every possible variation, or to provide instructions

    Code says cables must be supported, but is silent as to 'how.' There is no requirement that the support method be listed, approved, designed for the use, look nice, or meet any particular performance requirements.
    Code also says cables will be protected from physical damage ... but absent evidence of such damage, you're just guessing.

    As for a damaged cable energizing the wire mesh .... such might be a nice theoretical concern; but, again, code stops short. Incidental metal parts of the house need not be bonded to the grounding network. Even a steel beam, supported on wood posts, need not be bonded. Nor does aluminum siding, a metal roof, steel studs, etc. So, you are again left on your own.

    You can say, however, that your inspection revealed a number of examples of practices that did not conform to trade practices, as you understand them, and that you consider such work an indicator that perhaps those systems need a closer look by a more qualified person.


  8. #8
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    Mar 2007
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    Default Re: Electrical grid?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Steinke View Post
    As for a damaged cable energizing the wire mesh .... such might be a nice theoretical concern; but, again, code stops short.
    I disagree on that item as the code states:
    - 250.4 General Requirements for Grounding and Bonding.
    - - (A) Grounded Systems.
    - - - (4) Bonding of Electrically Conductive Materials and Other Equipment. Electrically conductive materials that are likely to become energized shall be connected together and to the electrical supply source in a manner that establishes an effective ground-fault current path.

    In my opinion, that metal grid is "likely to become energized" and thus requires bonding back to the grounding electrode system.

    Incidental metal parts of the house need not be bonded to the grounding network. Even a steel beam, supported on wood posts, need not be bonded. Nor does aluminum siding, a metal roof, steel studs, etc. So, you are again left on your own.
    I do agree with you on most of the following to an extent, some more than others.

    You can say, however, ...
    Fortunately, the HI is not restricted to minimum code when they see what they consider unsafe or a hazard of some type - they can, and should, call it out and write it up.

    Many electricians, on the other hand, only feel obligated to meet minimum code requirements.

    Electrical code inspector are basically limited to enforcing the minimum requirements of the code, and can go beyond those when the code is silent or vague on an issue they consider needs to be addressed.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  9. #9
    David Banks's Avatar
    David Banks Guest

    Default Re: Electrical grid?

    Quote:
    Incidental metal parts of the house need not be bonded to the grounding network. Even a steel beam, supported on wood posts, need not be bonded. Nor does aluminum siding, a metal roof, steel studs, etc. So, you are again left on your own.

    I do agree with you on most of the following to an extent, some more than others.
    Jerry

    Jerry do you think aluminum siding should be bonded?


  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Ormond Beach, Florida
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    Default Re: Electrical grid?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Banks View Post
    Jerry do you think aluminum siding should be bonded?
    If you have an overhead service attached to the side of the house and aluminum siding - you betcha. *To me*, that is "likely to become energized".

    Now, if you have an underground service where the conductors are all in a protective raceway - the risk is mitigated *somewhat*.

    But, you now have electrical lights and receptacle outlets mounted over the aluminum siding, and, *to me* that makes the aluminum siding "likely to become energized" through any accidental contact with the wiring to the lights and/or receptacles.

    In a nutshell, *to me*, there is enough electrical in and about the exterior that the risk of energizing the aluminum siding is there, i.e., it is "likely to become energized".

    Some AHJ also deem it that way, others do not. I doubt that John S. feels there is a need to bond aluminum siding - he has that right, I just disagree and would want the aluminum siding bonded to the grounding electrode system, for safety.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

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