Results 1 to 20 of 20
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    MONTREAL QUEBEC-CANADA
    Posts
    1,842

    Default Need a narrative.

    I open a Federal Pioneer Stab-Loc.
    The tags are discolored.
    I suspect water entered the panel. The wall board was swollen and the gypsum paper torn.
    suspect water.JPG
    No real concerns when I opened the panel.

    Looking for a narrative.
    Look at the lug on the 15 amp stab-loc breaker.
    Any help would be appreciated.
    lug.JPG

    F.I.R.E. Services
    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
    Call (514) 489-1887 or (514) 441-3732
    Our Motto; Putting information where you need it most, "In your hands.”

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Caledon, Ontario
    Posts
    5,005

    Default Re: Need a narrative.

    Robert

    Are you referring to the terminal screw? Is it corroded? Can't really ascertain from the photo, but if that is the case this is what I would write.

    The drywall around the electrical panel is stained likely by a water leak from plumbing, or foundation leak, or via the conduit from the service mast or under ground service entrance conduit.
    The breaker terminal screw is corroded(?) which may have been caused by water entering the panel. Replacement of the breaker may be warranted as there could be internal damage from water entry. Consult an electrician for further review and/or replacement of breaker.
    -Implications- failure of breaker to trip, electrocution, fire hazard due to internal corrosion.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Memphis TN.
    Posts
    4,311

    Default Re: Need a narrative.

    Quote Originally Posted by ROBERT YOUNG View Post
    I open a Federal Pioneer Stab-Loc.
    The tags are discolored.
    I suspect water entered the panel. The wall board was swollen and the gypsum paper torn.
    suspect water.JPG
    No real concerns when I opened the panel.

    Looking for a narrative.
    Look at the lug on the 15 amp stab-loc breaker.
    Any help would be appreciated.
    lug.JPG
    Electrical Service Panel: Evidence of water intrusion, corrosion.

    * the point of entry for the moisture needs repaired. If you can't determine the possible water entry point this service panel needs to be monitored and water contamination source needs repaired.

    ** I'd suggest a competent licensed Electrician pull the breakers and check the back of the panel and buss bar for water damage.

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    1,258

    Default Re: Need a narrative.

    They may be different in CA, but that doesn't look like a Stab Lok to me. Zinsco maybe?

    Jim Robinson
    New Mexico, USA

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Orlando, FL
    Posts
    1,340

    Default Re: Need a narrative.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Robinson View Post
    They may be different in CA, but that doesn't look like a Stab Lok to me. Zinsco maybe?
    Canadian Federal Pacific is much different than our US version...

    Dom.


  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    2,778

    Default Re: Need a narrative.

    1) state what you observe
    2) offer an opinion if you are qualified to do so, else beg off and refer to other who is qualified to provide an opinion


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    MONTREAL QUEBEC-CANADA
    Posts
    1,842

    Default Re: Need a narrative.

    Thanks Ray, terminal screw.

    Ray, interested colleagues, if you look closely at the terminal screw in the photo you will see it is not the same shape or torque pattern. leading me to hypothesize not from the manufacturer.
    The manufacturer is Federal Pioneer. Not FPE

    Secondly; terminal screws in three of the stab-loc breakers are tinted, discoloured.
    1: the suspect introduced terminal screw, 2 and 3 are original manufactured stab-loc terminal screws.
    Question, can this be from heat related stress?
    I pulled on the wires and they where tight.

    Thirdly; the tag labels on the stab-loc breakers were discoloured. I suspect from the water infiltration.
    stab-loc.JPG


    Thanks for the narratives. I am tired from a good run of inspections. I surely appreciate the help. Thank you colleagues for your support.

    Last edited by ROBERT YOUNG; 02-05-2015 at 03:34 PM. Reason: adding
    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
    Call (514) 489-1887 or (514) 441-3732
    Our Motto; Putting information where you need it most, "In your hands.”

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    1,258

    Default Re: Need a narrative.

    Interesting. Would not have know there was a different version of the Stab Lok out there. I have not run into that panel here, and I guess it's not likely that I will.

    Jim Robinson
    New Mexico, USA

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Memphis TN.
    Posts
    4,311

    Default Re: Need a narrative.

    Quote Originally Posted by ROBERT YOUNG View Post

    Thirdly; the tag labels on the stab-loc breakers were discoloured. I suspect from the water infiltration.
    stab-loc.JPG
    Looks like Heat Discoloration.

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Southern Vancouver Island
    Posts
    4,549

    Default Re: Need a narrative.

    Hey, Robert. I don't see any serious issues in your pics. The breakers ride around in the electrician's van, and sometimes you get a couple that have water-stained labels, a non-issue.
    Looking again, it does look like water ran down the front. The bus bars look clean though.

    If that is rust on that screw not a brass one, again it could be surface rust on the head. Tarnished copper at the connection, ok, that might be something.
    A different production run produces a different screw head, that's normal.

    Where there could be trouble is at the bus bars, so you may be right to call it out, but like I say, no sign of an issue in these pics.

    Last edited by John Kogel; 02-05-2015 at 04:14 PM.
    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
    www.allsafehome.ca

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Memphis TN.
    Posts
    4,311

    Default Re: Need a narrative.

    Robert
    Just curious did you check the temperature with your Infrared Thermometer?

    Frequently Asked Questions

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    579

    Default Re: Need a narrative.

    Did a quick search, appears that Canadian made Federal Pioneer with Stab-Lok breakers are known for problems, some have been recalled. Here's a link with more information Canadian Federal Pioneer and Federal Pacific Electric FPE Stab-Lok® Panel Circuit Breaker Hazards, Repairs, Electrical Panel Replacement Electricians Directory for Stab-Lok® Repairs


  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Southern Vancouver Island
    Posts
    4,549

    Default Re: Need a narrative.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trent Tarter View Post
    Did a quick search, appears that Canadian made Federal Pioneer with Stab-Lok breakers are known for problems, some have been recalled. Here's a link with more information Canadian Federal Pioneer and Federal Pacific Electric FPE Stab-Lok® Panel Circuit Breaker Hazards, Repairs, Electrical Panel Replacement Electricians Directory for Stab-Lok® Repairs
    Trent, that is Mr Inspectapedia. He is no expert on our side of the border.

    That recall was for one batch of 15 amp breakers that were crappy. From his website, "Note that this is a very specific recall. It did not pertain to the entire Federal Pioneer product line nor to other products manufactured by Schneider Electric."

    Federal Pioneer panels, made in Toronto, number in the millions, and they are not known to cause trouble.
    The old Federal Pacifics date back to the 60's and late 50's. Some early units had copper bus bars. Those old breakers could be unreliable, and sometimes they are loose.

    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
    www.allsafehome.ca

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Caledon, Ontario
    Posts
    5,005

    Default Re: Need a narrative.

    Having inspected a good number of homes with these panels I have found no issues other then things you find common in other name brand panels, such as double taps, over fusing, et ceteras.


  15. #15

    Default Re: Need a narrative.

    Quote Originally Posted by ROBERT YOUNG View Post
    I open a Federal Pioneer Stab-Loc.
    The tags are discolored.
    I suspect water entered the panel. The wall board was swollen and the gypsum paper torn.
    suspect water.JPG
    No real concerns when I opened the panel.

    Looking for a narrative.
    Look at the lug on the 15 amp stab-loc breaker.
    Any help would be appreciated.
    lug.JPG
    Due to the past defects of the past Fed Pacific stab-loc electrical panels and the past water intrusion's in this panel I HIGHLY RECOMMEND a licensed electrical contractor evaluate and advise on this panel for safety. See fed-pacific panels.com


  16. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    MONTREAL QUEBEC-CANADA
    Posts
    1,842

    Default Re: Need a narrative.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolland Pruner View Post
    Due to the past defects of the past Fed Pacific stab-loc electrical panels and the past water intrusion's in this panel I HIGHLY RECOMMEND a licensed electrical contractor evaluate and advise on this panel for safety. See fed-pacific panels.com
    Thanks Roliand.

    Roliand the panel is a Canadian Schneider Electric Federal Pioneer load center panel.
    Not an FPE

    My report was:
    The federal pioneer stab-loc breaker tags were discoloured.

    Recommend: Further review by a licensed electrician.
    Implication(s): Unpredictable.
    Location: Various Utility Room
    Task: Further evaluation
    Time: Unpredictable
    Cost: Depends on work needed


    Recommend: A licensed electrician review the panel breakers. Suspect water infiltration at one time.
    Implication(s): Electric shock | Fire hazard
    Location: Utility Room
    Task: Further evaluation
    Time: Immediate
    Cost: Depends on work needed

    Last edited by ROBERT YOUNG; 02-11-2015 at 06:47 AM.
    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
    Call (514) 489-1887 or (514) 441-3732
    Our Motto; Putting information where you need it most, "In your hands.”

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Maryland, DC, and Northern Virginia, electrical only
    Posts
    116

    Default Re: Need a narrative.

    Quote Originally Posted by ROBERT YOUNG View Post
    Thanks Roliand.

    Roliand the panel is a Canadian Schneider Electric Federal Pioneer load center panel.
    Not an FPE

    My report was:
    The federal pioneer stab-loc breaker tags were discoloured.

    Recommend: Further review by a licensed electrician.
    Implication(s): Unpredictable.
    Location: Various Utility Room
    Task: Further evaluation
    Time: Unpredictable
    Cost: Depends on work needed


    Recommend: A licensed electrician review the panel breakers. Suspect water infiltration at one time.
    Implication(s): Electric shock | Fire hazard
    Location: Utility Room
    Task: Further evaluation
    Time: Immediate
    Cost: Depends on work needed
    I'd add to the narrative a reference to the UL booklet on water-damaged electrical systems.


  18. #18

    Default Re: Need a narrative.

    PROFESSIONAL CONSULTING AND INSPECTION COMPANY INCLUDING FORENSIC INVESTIGATIONS

    http://jeffghooper.com/

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,252

    Default Re: Need a narrative.

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffGHooper View Post
    I suspect you meant to reference this document?
    Evaluating Water-Damaged Electrical Equipment

    Yes, since I first came across it in this:
    https://www.fema.gov/media-library/a...documents/3729

    I ordered 100 of the FEMA books and passed them out at a FABI conference back then.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  20. #20

    Default Re: Need a narrative.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    I suspect you meant to reference this document?
    Evaluating Water-Damaged Electrical Equipment

    Yes, since I first came across it in this:
    https://www.fema.gov/media-library/a...documents/3729

    I ordered 100 of the FEMA books and passed them out at a FABI conference back then.
    I knew you did, I was asking all others!!!

    PROFESSIONAL CONSULTING AND INSPECTION COMPANY INCLUDING FORENSIC INVESTIGATIONS

    http://jeffghooper.com/

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •