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  1. #1
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    Default If the main panel has been moved...

    If the main electrical panel has been moved, say from the basement to the exterior, do we need to open and inspect the old panel that is now a junction box under ASHI standards? How about other standards?

    Thanks,
    Mark W.

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: If the main panel has been moved...

    I do.

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  3. #3
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    Default Re: If the main panel has been moved...

    By visual inspection standards, for to document safe wiring standards? Your own safety is a reason for not opening the service panel or any area of visual inspection, such as large personal items blocking the service panel? Standing in a puddle? forgot your safety gloves, not wearing the proper clothing?

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    Fred Sweezer Sr
    www.thelongbeachhomeinspector.com

    Last edited by Fred Sweezer Sr; 02-22-2015 at 07:48 AM.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: If the main panel has been moved...

    Mark,
    Interesting question. If you are sure its only a junction box, you are probably not required to open it. However, unless you open it, you can not really determine if its ONLY a junction box.

    I once opened a panel outside and could not see any grounds or neutrals inside. When I went inside the house (right behind the new panel), I opened the "old" panel and discovered they had left the neutrals and grounds connected in that panel, and spliced all the hots to the outside panel.
    This was pre digital cameras, but I probably have the photos somewhere and I can scan them and post.

    Just to be safe, I open all old panels unless I can see there are no wires going in or out.


  5. #5
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    Default Re: If the main panel has been moved...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fred Sweezer Sr View Post
    By visual inspection standards, for to document safe wiring standards? Your own safety is a reason for not opening the service panel or any area of visual inspection, such as large personal items blocking the service panel? Standing in a puddle? forgot your safety gloves, not wearing the proper clothing?
    WHAT! Holy Cow! What SoP do you use? I have to go shovel snow, so I'm not going to write an essay with everything that is wrong with your post!

    A visual inspection means looking at the components and systems of a home. If you don't open the panel, whether the main service panel, remote (sub) or an old panel converted to a J-box, you are not doing your job as a HI if you don't look inside. Obviously, sometimes access to a panel is blocked, but there are few excuses for not inspecting these panels. If you feel that you need to have on safety gloves, boots, goggles, helmet, safety straps, air filtration mask, hearing protection, and clothing; then put them on, but do the job your clients are hiring you to do!

    So Mark, I think that you should open the door to the old box to see whatever is going on in there. Sometimes, I see the door to these old boxes secured with a screw or two. I still open them.

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  6. #6
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    Default Re: If the main panel has been moved...

    You are looking for significant defects and you might find some in there as Jack did.
    You are not going to put yourself at risk, so sometimes you would not open the junction box.

    These old fuse panels had handy little doors on them. Should be screwed shut but I was not complaining and yes I know the breakers are Stab-Loks.

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  7. #7
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    Default Re: If the main panel has been moved...

    I found the photos. November 1996 inspection. I had the inside and outside panels mixed up, but the results were still the same.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I found the photos. November 1996 inspection. I had the inside and outside panels mixed up, but the results were still the same.
    Not sure why the photos were added twice/

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    Last edited by Jack Feldmann; 02-22-2015 at 10:16 AM.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: If the main panel has been moved...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lon Henderson View Post
    WHAT! Holy Cow! What SoP do you use? I have to go shovel snow, so I'm not going to write an essay with everything that is wrong with your post!
    Lon , What are crying about moving a little snow I have had 8 feet of it in the last month in Boston and your complaining about a few inches (I really needed to get that in - I am done with all the snow)



    Here is the issue with not taking a look - you don't know what's really behind door #3 - for all you know this could be a box that was spliced by twisting wires together with only tape covering them (no wire nuts), Nuts could be falling off, wire could be loosing it's Primary insulation. You could find mice living there snacking on the wires. You might even find Jimmy Hoffa after all these years.

    Oh and Lon - you forgot , he should have a radiation detector and fall protection as well

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lon Henderson View Post
    WHAT! Holy Cow! What SoP do you use? I have to go shovel snow, so I'm not going to write an essay with everything that is wrong with your post!
    Lon , What are crying about moving a little snow I have had 8 feet of it in the last month in Boston and your complaining about a few inches (I really needed to get that in - I am done with all the snow)



    Here is the issue with not taking a look - you don't know what's really behind door #3 - for all you know this could be a box that was spliced by twisting wires together with only tape covering them (no wire nuts), Nuts could be falling off, wire could be loosing it's Primary insulation. You could find mice living there snacking on the wires. You might even find Jimmy Hoffa after all these years.

    Oh and Lon - you forgot , he should have a radiation detector and fall protection as well


  9. #9
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    Default Re: If the main panel has been moved...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lon Henderson View Post
    WHAT! Holy Cow! What SoP do you use? I have to go shovel snow, so I'm not going to write an essay with everything that is wrong with your post!
    Lon , What are crying about moving a little snow I have had 8 feet of it in the last month in Boston and your complaining about a few inches (I really needed to get that in - I am done with all the snow)



    Here is the issue with not taking a look - you don't know what's really behind door #3 - for all you know this could be a box that was spliced by twisting wires together with only tape covering them (no wire nuts), Nuts could be falling off, wire could be loosing it's Primary insulation. You could find mice living there snacking on the wires. You might even find Jimmy Hoffa after all these years.

    Oh and Lon - you forgot , he should have a radiation detector and fall protection as well


  10. #10
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    Default Re: If the main panel has been moved...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Doane View Post
    Lon , What are crying about moving a little snow I have had 8 feet of it in the last month in Boston and your complaining about a few inches (I really needed to get that in - I am done with all the snow)
    I feel for ya brother. About eight years ago, we had a winter like yours. The mail couldn't get through. Ranchers were air dropping hay to cattle. Deer and turkeys were grazing with the cattle on it. It was a brutal winter. Six massive wind driven snows on six weekends in a row.

    Clients were cancelling inspections left and right because no one could get around and agents couldn't show or sell houses. I did about five inspections in December and January. I had snow piled so high along my driveway that I didn't think that it would ever melt. My little Ford 9N couldn't move it anymore. Drifts were so high that the dogs just walked over the fence out of the yard. Toward the end of winter, I hired my neighbor to come over with his front end loader to clear my driveway because the bucket on my tractor was too low to pile it on top.

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  11. #11
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    Default Re: If the main panel has been moved...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Woodsman View Post
    If the main electrical panel has been moved, say from the basement to the exterior, do we need to open and inspect the old panel that is now a junction box under ASHI standards? How about other standards?

    Thanks,
    Mark W.


    After this thread that will not require any thought:

    http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_i...essential.html


  12. #12
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    Default Re: If the main panel has been moved...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Woodsman View Post
    If the main electrical panel has been moved, say from the basement to the exterior, do we need to open and inspect the old panel that is now a junction box under ASHI standards? How about other standards?

    Thanks,
    Mark W.
    Why would you not look inside to check the splices, check for burned wiring, corrosion, etc...? Standards of Practice are the "minimum" you should do, just like building codes - they're the "minimum" contractors can get away with, not the top of the spectrum. JMO


  13. #13
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    Default Re: If the main panel has been moved...

    I'm curious:

    Does anyone look inside other junction boxes? Or just the ones that used to be panels?

    - - - Updated - - -

    I'm curious:

    Does anyone look inside other junction boxes? Or just the ones that used to be panels?


  14. #14
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    Default Re: If the main panel has been moved...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Ruth View Post
    I'm curious:

    Does anyone look inside other junction boxes? Or just the ones that used to be panels?

    - - - Updated - - -

    I'm curious:

    Does anyone look inside other junction boxes? Or just the ones that used to be panels?
    Yes - it is a good way to get an idea of the general condition of the wiring , pull the occasional switch out (if you are competent to do so and not get electrocuted)


  15. #15
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    Default Re: If the main panel has been moved...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Ruth View Post
    I'm curious:

    Does anyone look inside other junction boxes? Or just the ones that used to be panels?

    - - - Updated - - -

    I'm curious:

    Does anyone look inside other junction boxes? Or just the ones that used to be panels?
    If there are some located in oddball places in a remodel, I do. Here is one from yesterday - wire nuts on neutrals and grounds, but the hots were twisted together and wrapped in cloth electrical tape.

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  16. #16
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    Default Re: If the main panel has been moved...

    I always look in these old panels in line from the new one, in about half the bonding screw is stil in place.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I always look in these old panels in line from the new one, in about half the bonding screw is stil in place.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I always look in these old panels in line from the new one, in about half the bonding screw is still in place.


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