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  1. #1
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    Default This is to the Canadians and service bonding requirements.

    We are having a discussion on bonding of the Neutral (grounded conductor) and grounding conductor in service equipment on residential in Canada. From what I understand you are the same as us in the US.

    I have been told you do not bond there, is this correct? I am trying to understand how this could be so if it is not required there.

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    Don Hester
    NCW Home Inspections, LLC
    Wa. St. Licensed H I #647, WSDA #80050, http://www.ncwhomeinspections.com

  2. #2
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    Default Re: This is to the Canadians and service bonding requirements.

    Don,

    I'm not fully understanding your question.

    "Down here" we bond the grounded conductor to ground and to the enclosure (which is supposed to be grounded) at the service equipment.

    The grounded conductor (neutral) is isolated from ground downstream of the service equipment.

    The grounded conductor and ground are typically one and the same conductor from the service equipment and upstream from it in the service entrance conductors.

    Last edited by Jerry Peck; 04-10-2015 at 12:53 PM. Reason: formatting into paragraphs as it was supposed to be
    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  3. #3
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    Default Re: This is to the Canadians and service bonding requirements.

    Jerry,

    I was told they do not bond at the main service panel in Canada, which I just cannot see how there are performing that critical bond of the grounding system to the grounded conductor to clear a fault.

    I know that anything downstream of service equipment has to have the grounded conductor isolated from the grounding.

    Since I am not familiar with the CEC I do not know if they have another requirement to meet that critical bond point.

    Seems to me that they would be very similar to us in the states when it comes to this but they may be doing it at a different point.

    So I was curious if any of our Canadian Brethren had some insight into this.

    My initial reaction was that cannot be correct but, hey I want to learn even if it does not directly affect me.

    Since I border Canada/BC I may run into something that has been done by a Canadian electrician. The Canadians buy properties here in Washington in my area. It is desert for them

    Don Hester
    NCW Home Inspections, LLC
    Wa. St. Licensed H I #647, WSDA #80050, http://www.ncwhomeinspections.com

  4. #4
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    Default Re: This is to the Canadians and service bonding requirements.

    Don,

    My recollection from previous posts by our Canadian friends is that the grounded conductor was bonded to ground at the service equipment and that the main difference (and I hope I will be corrected on this if I say it incorrectly) is that, whereas down here, we allow the "service side"/"line side" of the service equipment to be in the same enclosure as the "load side" of the service equipment without any separation between the two (i.e., remove the dead front panel cover and the service entrance conductors are accessible as are any feeders and branch circuit conductors) ... whereas in Canada, the "service side"/"line side" of the service equipment may be in the same enclosure with the "load side" of the service equipment, however, a grounded metal barrier is required to separate the two sections of the service equipment (i.e., removing the first dead front cover provides access to feeders and branch circuits ONLY - that a second dead front cover must be removed to gain access to the service entrance conductor side of the service equipment and that once that second dead front cover is removed there is a grounded metal barrier separating the two sections of the enclosure).

    Whew! That is one long run-on paragraph ...

    ... now to wait and find out if I said it correctly or even close ...

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  5. #5
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    Default Re: This is to the Canadians and service bonding requirements.

    Jerry, Interesting. That may be why the discussion went that way.

    I am hoping some of our Northern brethren will enlighten us.

    Don Hester
    NCW Home Inspections, LLC
    Wa. St. Licensed H I #647, WSDA #80050, http://www.ncwhomeinspections.com

  6. #6
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    Default Re: This is to the Canadians and service bonding requirements.

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Hester View Post
    Jerry, Interesting. That may be why the discussion went that way.

    I am hoping some of our Northern brethren will enlighten us.
    ESA requires neutral and ground bonded at main disconnect.

    Bryce Jeffrey
    Jeffrey Home Inspection
    St. Thomas, Ontario, Canada

  7. #7
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    Default Re: This is to the Canadians and service bonding requirements.

    Bryce so your main bonding is the same as NEC. Are there any variations such as Jerry stated?

    Don Hester
    NCW Home Inspections, LLC
    Wa. St. Licensed H I #647, WSDA #80050, http://www.ncwhomeinspections.com

  8. #8
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    Default Re: This is to the Canadians and service bonding requirements.

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Hester View Post
    Bryce so your main bonding is the same as NEC. Are there any variations such as Jerry stated?
    I think he said it correctly? In most instances we have a main disconnect dead front and a distribution dead front located in the same panel. Each dead front is removed separately. On older services sometimes we have a separate main disconnect that feeds to the older distribution panel (dead front). These are usually recommended for an upgrade.

    Still having a difficult time posting. This took five minutes!

    Bryce Jeffrey
    Jeffrey Home Inspection
    St. Thomas, Ontario, Canada

  9. #9
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    Default Re: This is to the Canadians and service bonding requirements.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryce Jeffrey View Post
    I think he said it correctly? In most instances we have a main disconnect dead front and a distribution dead front located in the same panel. Each dead front is removed separately. On older services sometimes we have a separate main disconnect that feeds to the older distribution panel (dead front). These are usually recommended for an upgrade.

    Still having a difficult time posting. This took five minutes!

    Jerry stated it correctly. You must have a separation between the two sides.

    Best regards,
    Pat


  10. #10
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    Default Re: This is to the Canadians and service bonding requirements.

    Yes the branch circuits are kept separate from the SEC, older panels have two panel covers, or present day panels have an extra cover inside covering the SEC's.

    Even though neutral is bonded to ground in the service panel, the neutral branch wires never share the same bus as the equipment ground wires. So maybe that is it, we don't put grounding conductors to the neutral bus.

    The service drop is not allowed to be swung over the roof the way it is done in the US, and the height requirements for the service drop are higher.
    Service equipment is always indoors. We don't use Al from the ground rod or Ufer to the panel, it is always copper.
    There is tons more. AFCI to bedroom outlets only. Split duplex 15 amp kitchen outlets are still allowed except within 2 metres of the sink and we spell stuff different too.

    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
    www.allsafehome.ca

  11. #11
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    Default Re: This is to the Canadians and service bonding requirements.

    Thanks everyone for the replies.

    Do you have a code provision(s) that spells that out? I am interested to see how your code specifies that arrangement.

    Again thanks love learning this stuff.

    Don Hester
    NCW Home Inspections, LLC
    Wa. St. Licensed H I #647, WSDA #80050, http://www.ncwhomeinspections.com

  12. #12
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    Default Re: This is to the Canadians and service bonding requirements.

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Hester View Post
    Thanks everyone for the replies.

    Do you have a code provision(s) that spells that out? I am interested to see how your code specifies that arrangement.

    Again thanks love learning this stuff.
    No I don't have refs. and I would just be Google searching for them.
    I never argue electrical with anyone because everyone knows I'm right.

    The best book, remember those? is by P.S. Knight, BC Electrical Code Simplified. He has been updating the book since I first picked one up in 1982. That is my code book.

    That and my memory banks. One situation that may be where the mystery started. This is a recent code change for me anyway.
    If the house in Canada has a suite or is a duplex with one service mast and 2 side-by-side meters, the neutral is bonded in the double meter can and then the SEC's go to the 2 main breakers in the 2 breaker panels.
    In that case the neutral is not bonded again in the panels, even though the main breakers are in those breaker panels. In the past they would bond one but not the other or some variation.
    No disconnect outside at the meter, so the main is invariably in that main breaker panel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Wood View Post
    Thanks John however each jurisdiction must adopt there own as regards the service. To the most part that does match the ESA requirements. Just seen yesterday how they are addressing the issue over a roof ridge. And what they do as line men. A plastic cover is placed at the area of possible roof contact and separation for safety of the line men.
    Sure thing, Kevin. Areas with heavier snow loads will have stricter rules. I think that is why in general the service is kept higher in Canada and off the roof as much as possible. Guys up there with snow blowers.

    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
    www.allsafehome.ca

  13. #13
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    Default Re: This is to the Canadians and service bonding requirements.

    Im a bit confused as to which code reference/s you were requesting. I'd be happy to provide them if you clarify. It helps to keep me sharp!


  14. #14
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    Default Re: This is to the Canadians and service bonding requirements.

    Jeff,

    I was looking for how your code specifies how and where you do the primary bond of the grounded conductor/neutral to the grounding conductor to the ground electrode.

    Is your service equipment always isolated from the panelboard?

    Here by far the most common arrangement is the main panelboard is also your service equipment so you see the bonding of the grounded conductor/neutral and the grounding conductor of the ground electrode in the panelboard.

    You will also see grounds and neutrals from branch circuits landing on the same busses.

    Don Hester
    NCW Home Inspections, LLC
    Wa. St. Licensed H I #647, WSDA #80050, http://www.ncwhomeinspections.com

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