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  1. #1
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    Default Are these other wires and systems allowable around Masthead?

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    I recommended Buyer remove these plug in wires for snow melt system due to proximity with main service wires, but is there anything against this in the code? Is the outlet box proximity to the service head allowable? (The bedroom window is right there as well)

    Also in case you were not aware, there is a new way to bunch all the grounds in a main panel into a ball and pretend to clamp them without a bus bar...

    IMG_2059.jpg IMG_2058.jpg

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    Last edited by chris vis; 06-26-2015 at 05:44 PM.
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Are these other wires and systems allowable around Masthead?

    While there is really nothing which is right about those receptacles up there - the one item which is not wrong (not prohibited) is being that close to the service conductors.

    Also, the grounds in that service equipment panel (I am presuming it is the service equipment panel) are really all fudged up.

    It does look like the neutral terminal bar is bonded to ground (at the top of the left neutral terminal bar).

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Are these other wires and systems allowable around Masthead?

    I do see an issue with the ground wires , each needs to be secured individually - it appears someone used and all in one clamp to satisfy this - chances are there is a floating ground too (one that is not really connected (electrically to the rest) - for this reason alone - I would suggest having an electrician come in and evaluate the electrical system - it is a big enough error that you want more trained eyes (and equipment looking at it)

    The De-icing cables , Look like you have to plug them in to use them - just guessing but I would not want to be up on a ladder doing that and the outlet leeds me to believe this was a do it yourself add on and not properly protected - my guess is you need to turn on the light to activate them

    - - - Updated - - -


    I do see an issue with the ground wires , each needs to be secured individually - it appears someone used and all in one clamp to satisfy this - chances are there is a floating ground too (one that is not really connected (electrically to the rest) - for this reason alone - I would suggest having an electrician come in and evaluate the electrical system - it is a big enough error that you want more trained eyes (and equipment looking at it)

    The De-icing cables , Look like you have to plug them in to use them - just guessing but I would not want to be up on a ladder doing that and the outlet leeds me to believe this was a do it yourself add on and not properly protected - my guess is you need to turn on the light to activate them


  4. #4
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    Default Re: Are these other wires and systems allowable around Masthead?

    I am fairly certain that you can't run another wire up the service mast and out to that outlet. That's one that I've never seen and while creative....no bueno!

    If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Are these other wires and systems allowable around Masthead?

    Quote Originally Posted by chris viscomi View Post
    IMG_2038.jpg

    I recommended Buyer remove these plug in wires for snow melt system due to proximity with main service wires, but is there anything against this in the code? Is the outlet box proximity to the service head allowable? (The bedroom window is right there as well)

    Also in case you were not aware, there is a new way to bunch all the grounds in a main panel into a ball and pretend to clamp them without a bus bar...

    IMG_2059.jpg IMG_2058.jpg

    2014 NEC
    230.28 Service Masts as Supports. Only power service drop or overhead service conductors shall be permitted to be attached to a service mast. Service masts used for the
    support of service-drop or overhead service conductors shall be installed in accordance with 230.28(A) and (B).


  6. #6
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    Default Re: Are these other wires and systems allowable around Masthead?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lon Henderson View Post
    I am fairly certain that you can't run another wire up the service mast and out to that outlet. That's one that I've never seen and while creative....Áno bueno!
    What other wires are are exiting the weather head besides the service conductors? I don't see any.


  7. #7
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    Default Re: Are these other wires and systems allowable around Masthead?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad Richter View Post
    What other wires are are exiting the weather head besides the service conductors? I don't see any.
    My mistake. I enlarged the photo enough to see that the wire runs behind the mast and not out of it.

    If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Are these other wires and systems allowable around Masthead?

    What a nightmare!!
    First, draw a line 3' from the window in all directions. That is the required clearance.
    I do believe the masthead should have an 18" clearance in all directions. Even if its less its too close to the soffit. Much too dangerous to service whatever is plugged in to the plugs or even change the light bulb. As for the panel...the enclosure is not bonded, each ground conductor is required to be mechanically secured and torqued??? (is that a word)as specified. I can't see the size of the main, but i'm pretty sure the aluminum service entrance cables are undersized.


  9. #9
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    Default Re: Are these other wires and systems allowable around Masthead?

    Quote Originally Posted by mary theresa craig View Post
    What a nightmare!!
    First, draw a line 3' from the window in all directions. That is the required clearance.
    It is? In all directions? Where did you get that from?

    I do believe the masthead should have an 18" clearance in all directions.
    Same as above.

    As for the panel...the enclosure is not bonded,
    What looks to be a bonding strap is at the top of the neutral terminal bar and is barely visible.

    each ground conductor is required to be mechanically secured and torqued??? (is that a word)as specified.
    ALL conductors are required to be properly torqued, but how can you tell, or what makes you think, they are not properly torqued.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Are these other wires and systems allowable around Masthead?

    Thanks Jerry, I was wondering where some of those rules were coming from too. Hope she explains her ideas.

    All answers based on unamended National Electrical codes.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Are these other wires and systems allowable around Masthead?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    It is? In all directions? Where did you get that from?




    Same as above.



    What looks to be a bonding strap is at the top of the neutral terminal bar and is barely visible.



    ALL conductors are required to be properly torqued, but how can you tell, or what makes you think, they are not properly torqued.
    I accept the challenge
    although surprised your questioning the window clearance.
    like i said the 18" clearance for masthead i'm unsure but i do know all parts must be accessible for servicing, without disassembling the structure, hence the mastheadhead is too close to soffit.
    all devices,parts shall be approved for their application. The ground clamp is listed for a single conducted/ground rod connection. ill get you code reference on the window clearance.
    and look at pic of enclosure again
    so your saying the enclosure is properly bonded because the neutral bar has a strap?


  12. #12
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    Default Re: Are these other wires and systems allowable around Masthead?

    Quote Originally Posted by mary theresa craig View Post
    I accept the challenge
    although surprised your questioning the window clearance.
    like i said the 18" clearance for masthead i'm unsure but i do know all parts must be accessible for servicing, without disassembling the structure, hence the mastheadhead is too close to soffit.
    all devices,parts shall be approved for their application. The ground clamp is listed for a single conducted/ground rod connection. ill get you code reference on the window clearance.
    and look at pic of enclosure again
    so your saying the enclosure is properly bonded because the neutral bar has a strap?
    I see a bonding bar that runs between the bus bars. it appears to be properly secure but that does not bond the enclosure. the only source of ground (earth ground) that achieves equal potential to the service entrance and protection for equipment and occupants is the #4bare copper that should go to the ground rod. make sense?
    ok code reference for clearance from a fire escape!

    Last edited by mary theresa craig; 07-03-2015 at 02:21 PM.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Are these other wires and systems allowable around Masthead?

    Quote Originally Posted by mary theresa craig View Post
    I accept the challenge&lt;br&gt;<br>
    although surprised your questioning the window clearance.&lt;br&gt;<br>
    like i said the 18" clearance for masthead i'm unsure but i do know all parts must be accessible for servicing, without disassembling the structure, hence the mastheadhead is too close to soffit.&lt;br&gt;<br>
    all devices,parts shall be approved for their application. The ground clamp is listed for a single conducted/ground rod connection. ill get you code reference on the window clearance. &lt;br&gt;<br>
    and look at pic of enclosure again&lt;br&gt;<br>
    so your saying the enclosure is properly bonded because the neutral bar has a strap?
    &lt;br&gt;<br>
    I see a bonding bar that runs between the bus bars. it appears to be properly secure but that does not bond the enclosure. the only source of ground (earth ground) that achieves equal potential to the service entrance and protection for equipment and occupants is the #4bare copper that should come from the ground rod. make sense?&lt;br&gt;<br>
    ok code reference for clearance from a fire escape!<br>
    <br>
    <font color="silver">- - - Updated - - -</font><br>
    <br>
    Quote Originally Posted by mary theresa craig View Post
    &lt;br&gt;<br>
    I see a bonding bar that runs between the bus bars. it appears to be properly secure but that does not bond the enclosure. the only source of ground (earth ground) that achieves equal potential to the service entrance and protection for equipment and occupants is the #4bare copper that should go to the ground rod. make sense?&lt;br&gt;<br>
    ok code reference for clearance from a fire escape!
    <br>
    i stand corrected nec 230.9 requires clearance for windows on three sides(2 sides and bottom) from service drop, not the top<img src="http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_inspection/images/smilies/redface.png" border="0" alt="" title="Embarrassment" smilieid="2" class="inlineimg">

    Last edited by mary theresa craig; 07-03-2015 at 02:28 PM.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Are these other wires and systems allowable around Masthead?

    Quote Originally Posted by mary theresa craig View Post
    I accept the challenge
    although surprised your questioning the window clearance.
    like i said the 18" clearance for masthead i'm unsure but i do know all parts must be accessible for servicing, without disassembling the structure, hence the mastheadhead is too close to soffit.
    all devices,parts shall be approved for their application. The ground clamp is listed for a single conducted/ground rod connection. ill get you code reference on the window clearance.
    and look at pic of enclosure again
    so your saying the enclosure is properly bonded because the neutral bar has a strap?
    Have you ever installed a weather head? How do you think it got there in the first place?


  15. #15
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    Default Re: Are these other wires and systems allowable around Masthead?

    Quote Originally Posted by mary theresa craig View Post
    ill get you code reference on the window clearance.
    and look at pic of enclosure again
    We'll still be here.

    so your saying the enclosure is properly bonded because the neutral bar has a strap?
    That is the purpose of that strap - provided it is connected properly - which is the part we cannot tell from the photo (although the little bit I see looks like it might be).

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Are these other wires and systems allowable around Masthead?

    Mary, the conductor to a ground for never has to be larger than a #6.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Mary, the conductor to a ground for never has to be larger than a #6.

    All answers based on unamended National Electrical codes.

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