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Thread: 2008 NEC Update

  1. #1
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    Default 2008 NEC Update

    OREP Home Inspector E&O Insurance
    badair http://www.adairinspection.com Garland, TX 75042 TREC # 4563
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: 2008 NEC Update

    Barry,

    Thank you,

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  3. #3
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    Default Re: 2008 NEC Update

    Where this matches the final 2008 NEC I find it a bit easier to copy and paste from, also, there are some nice diagrams.

    July-August 2006: Analysis of Changes, Part 1, NEC-2008
    September-October 2006: Analysis of Changes, NEC-2008, Part II


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    Default Re: 2008 NEC Update

    Barry,

    Thanks for the information.

    I hear your buying lunch. Thats great.

    Just kidding you
    rick


  5. #5
    imported_Richard Washington's Avatar
    imported_Richard Washington Guest

    Cool Re: 2008 NEC Update

    Am I understanding this to mean that garage door "inaccessible" opener outlets are to be GFCI protected?

    11
    Article 210
    Section 210.8 (A) Ground-Fault Circuit Interrupter Protection
    for Personnel; Dwelling Units.
    The exception numbers (1) and (2) have been removed and GFCI protection is now
    required for most receptacles in unfinished basements and in garages and accessory
    buildings that have a floor located at or below grade level not intended as habitable rooms
    and limited to storage areas, work areas and areas of similar use.
    (1) Receptacles that are not readily accessible
    (2) A single receptacle or a duplex receptacle for two appliances located within
    dedicated space for each appliance that, in normal use, is not easily moved from
    one place to another and that is cord and plug connected in accordance with
    400.7(A)(6), (A)(7) or (A)(8).
    Analysis of Change:
    Lack of “accessibility” of receptacles in these areas is no longer seen as reason to exempt
    them from the protection provided by ground-fault circuit interrupter protection for
    personnel. Similarly, the exception for receptacles in dedicated spaces for appliances in
    garages and accessory buildings has been removed. The expanded use of GFCI
    receptacles in these applications will necessitate boxes having larger capacity in some
    cases. Exception number (3) was retained for a receptacle supplying a permanently
    installed fire alarm or burglar alarm system.
    Copyright IAEI © 2007
    GFCI protection required
    T&B Product: Device Boxes a


  6. #6
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    Default Re: 2008 NEC Update

    Quote Originally Posted by imported_Richard Washington View Post
    Am I understanding this to mean that garage door "inaccessible" opener outlets are to be GFCI protected?
    Yes.


    *Most* of the previous Exceptions to GFCI protection have been removed. For all dwelling unit locations.

    For example, the exception for GFCI protection not being required for 'appliances' (i.e., freezer and refrigerator) are also gone.

    The reason for some (like the one on the ceiling for the garage door opener and other high ones considered "not readily accessible") the reason is that taller people should be afforded the same protection as shorter people. Makes sense when you consider that there is no reason to protect a shorter person and let a taller person be electrocuted.

    The reason for some (like the appliances) is that appliances have, for quite some time now, been being manufactured to a higher standard regarding ground leakage, i.e., less ground fault current is allowed, making it such that when an appliance trips a GFCI - that indicates a problem with the appliance. That's what I've been saying here the last few years, and the reason why sump pumps were not given an exception (the sump pump motor was not allowed to have enough ground fault leakage to trip a GFCI, and, if it did, then there is a problem with the sump pump or its circuit).

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  7. #7
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    Default Re: 2008 NEC Update

    On the subject of GFCI protection in a garage, are there any new (or old) requirements or even suggestions to prevent tripping of a freezer circuit from a remote location or to provide accessibility to reset the GFCI without moving the appliance? I am thinking of the typical set-up here where the front and rear exterior outlets are protected by the GFCI in the garage. I always tell people not to use the GFCI outlet so they don't loose the freezer full of meat when the Christmas lights on the front porch outlet trip the GFCI in the garage while they are gone for the weekend, etc.
    Common sense can't be relied on for the electrician to put in a separate circuit for this, anything in the new codes address this?

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Dallas, Texas

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    Default Re: 2008 NEC Update

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Hurst View Post
    Barry,

    Thanks for the information.

    I hear your buying lunch. Thats great.

    Just kidding you
    rick
    That'll work as long as I get enough donations between now and then

    BuyMyLunch.com - donate money online to buy my lunch for me.

    Michael,

    Thanx4linx

    badair http://www.adairinspection.com Garland, TX 75042 TREC # 4563
    Commercial-Residential-Construction-EIFS-Infrared Thermography
    life is the random lottery of events followed by numerous narrow escapes

  9. #9
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    Default Re: 2008 NEC Update

    As Jerry P stated per 2008 NEC code changes, ALL receptacle outlets within a garage shall be GFCI protected. NO exceptions !

    Jerry McCarthy
    Building Code/ Construction Consultant

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    Default Re: 2008 NEC Update

    Jerry M., I got the ALL are required to be GFCI part. My question was if there are any additional rules or footnote advice to require a separate GFCI circuit for freezer spaces, etc.

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Dallas, Texas

  11. #11
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    Default Re: 2008 NEC Update

    Jim,

    This may cover the answer you're looking for

    Garage. A garage attached to a dwelling unit must have a receptacle [210.52(G)]. In an accessory building or a detached garage with power, a receptacle is also required. In either case, the receptacle must be GFCI protected [210.8(A)(2)]. A couple of exceptions exist:


    Receptacles that aren't readily accessible, such as those in the ceiling for the garage door opener motor. See the definition of “Readily Accessible” in Art. 100.

    A single receptacle on a dedicated branch circuit identified for a specific cord-and-plug connected appliance, such as a refrigerator or freezer. You can use a duplex receptacle without GFCI protection for two such appliances. Receptacles permitted by this exception must be within 6 feet of the appliance [210.50(C)].


    Receptacles that aren't readily accessible (or those for a dedicated branch circuit for a specific cord-and-plug connected appliance, as permitted in the two exceptions above) do not count as the required receptacle described in 210.52(G).

    Branch Circuits - Applying GFCIs and AFCIs

    BTW if it does answer correctly you're buying lunch I'm not as easy as Rick and am not Kiddin'

    Last edited by BARRY ADAIR; 11-24-2007 at 04:18 PM.
    badair http://www.adairinspection.com Garland, TX 75042 TREC # 4563
    Commercial-Residential-Construction-EIFS-Infrared Thermography
    life is the random lottery of events followed by numerous narrow escapes

  12. #12
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    Default Re: 2008 NEC Update

    Barry, close but no cigar. I guess that means you are stuck buying
    The exception numbers (1) and (2) have been removed and GFCI protection is now
    required for most receptacles in unfinished basements and in garages and accessory
    buildings that have a floor located at or below grade level not intended as habitable rooms
    and limited to storage areas, work areas and areas of similar use.
    (1) Receptacles that are not readily accessible
    (2) A single receptacle or a duplex receptacle for two appliances located within
    dedicated space for each appliance that, in normal use, is not easily moved from
    one place to another and that is cord and plug connected in accordance with
    400.7(A)(6), (A)(7) or (A)(8).
    I just finished reading through your post of NEC changes for 2008 and found no new requirements to prevent accidental loss from GFCI trips for refrigerators and freezers.

    On a related note, given the expanded role of AFCI it seems that all outlets under the 2008 code will be either AFCI or GFCI protected. Does anyone know the reason that kitchens an baths do not require AFCI protection (yet)?

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Dallas, Texas

  13. #13
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    Default Re: 2008 NEC Update

    Jim,
    If this is true and thus being the case, all of the refrigerated and frozen food that was intended for lunch has been lost from a nuisance trip during the storms we are having and lunch will be PBJ sandwiches at the park.

    got milk?

    badair http://www.adairinspection.com Garland, TX 75042 TREC # 4563
    Commercial-Residential-Construction-EIFS-Infrared Thermography
    life is the random lottery of events followed by numerous narrow escapes

  14. #14
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    Default Re: 2008 NEC Update

    Wisconsin adopted the 2005 NEC but modified it to exclude any AFCI requirements.

    We will see what happens when it comes to the 2008 NEC.


  15. #15
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    Default Re: 2008 NEC Update

    NEC-2008: Section 210.8 (A) Ground-Fault Circuit Interrupter Protection for Personnel; Dwelling Units.
    The exception numbers (1) and (2) have been removed and GFCI protection is now required for most receptacles in unfinished basements and in garages and accessory buildings that have a floor located at or below grade level not intended as habitable rooms and limited to storage areas, work areas and areas of similar use.(1) Receptacles that are not readily accessible
    (2) A single receptacle or a duplex receptacle for two appliances located within dedicated space for each appliance that, in normal use, is not easily moved from one place to another and that is cord and plug connected in accordance with 400.7(A)(6), (A)(7) or (A)(8).
    Analysis of Change: Lack of “accessibility” of receptacles in these areas is no longer seen as reason to exempt them from the protection provided by ground-fault circuit interrupter protection for personnel. Similarly, the exception for receptacles in dedicated spaces for appliances in garages and accessory buildings has been removed. The expanded use of GFCI receptacles in these applications will necessitate boxes having larger capacity in some cases. Exception number (3) was retained for a receptacle supplying a permanently installed fire alarm or burglar alarm system.
    JM Comments: I fail to see any exceptions. Also, the new GFCI devices now available are not nearly as susceptible to nuisance tripping as older versions
    BTW – how did we get on AFCIs?

    Jerry McCarthy
    Building Code/ Construction Consultant

  16. #16
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    Default Re: 2008 NEC Update

    Quote Originally Posted by BARRY ADAIR View Post
    Garage. A garage attached to a dwelling unit must have a receptacle [210.52(G)]. In an accessory building or a detached garage with power, a receptacle is also required. In either case, the receptacle must be GFCI protected [210.8(A)(2)]. A couple of exceptions exist:
    Barry,

    *NO* exception exist for 125 volt 15 and 20 amp receptacle outlets in the Garage (or an accessory building) - *ALL* "Exceptions" have been removed.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  17. #17
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    Default Re: 2008 NEC Update

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry McCarthy View Post
    [B]
    BTW – how did we get on AFCIs?
    Jerry Mc

    Probably the BAD INFO link I posted

    Jerry P

    Got that at Jim's posts but thanks to all for the reaffirmation.

    Nolan

    Stay out of this

    badair http://www.adairinspection.com Garland, TX 75042 TREC # 4563
    Commercial-Residential-Construction-EIFS-Infrared Thermography
    life is the random lottery of events followed by numerous narrow escapes

  18. #18
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    Default Re: 2008 NEC Update

    Quote Originally Posted by Nolan Kienitz View Post
    Meaning they have exempted the wall switches, overhead lights and smokes.
    Switches are exempt anyway - they are not "outlets" on the electrical wiring system, they are 'controllers' ... only "outlets" and their circuits are included, and, yes, a switch may be on a circuit with an "outlet", however, you could have a switch in a bedroom on a different circuit which has *no* "outlets" in the bedroom, thus the circuit with *that* switch would not be required to be AFCI protected (under editions prior to the 2008, and, even the 2008 if that circuit *only* had "exterior" "outlets" on it. There is no mention in the 2008 of circuits for "exterior" outlets, thus, you could wire a house with one or more circuits for "exterior" outlets and *NOT* be required to have AFCI protection.

    Was that a miss on their part? Or was it intended? I don't know, but it would allow non-AFCI protected 125 volt circuits to be "within" the dwelling unit so long as the "outlets" on those circuits were not in the dwelling units.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  19. #19
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    Default Re: 2008 NEC Update

    I am puzzled by all this interest in the 2008 NEC. Why are HI's interested?

    After all, codes are NOT retroactive. The 2008 edition can be applied only to those projects whose plans were approved after the 08 edition was adopted by the local jurisdiction. I am not aware of any jurisdiction having yet adopted it.

    Add to this the idea that HI's don't inspect new construction ... and I would expect this discussion to lay dormant for another year or two.


  20. #20
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    Default Re: 2008 NEC Update

    Quote Originally Posted by John Steinke View Post
    I am puzzled by all this interest in the 2008 NEC. Why are HI's interested?
    Are you and other "electricians" interested in the 2008 NEC?

    If so, why?

    After all, codes are NOT retroactive. The 2008 edition can be applied only to those projects whose plans were approved after the 08 edition was adopted by the local jurisdiction. I am not aware of any jurisdiction having yet adopted it.
    Being as no jurisdiction has adopted it, why do you care?

    Oh, because some *WILL BE* adopting it soon?

    Add to this the idea that HI's don't inspect new construction ... and I would expect this discussion to lay dormant for another year or two.
    An Many HIs *DO* inspect new construction, thus, for the same reasons YOU are (at least *SHOULD BE*) interested in the 2008 NEC, HIs are interested in it.







    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  21. #21
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    Default Re: 2008 NEC Update

    This article brings up a number of changes not mentioned in others I've read:

    September-October 2007: Inspecting to the 2008 National Electrical Code

    Michael Thomas
    Paragon Property Services Inc., Chicago IL
    http://paragoninspects.com

  22. #22
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    Default Re: 2008 NEC Update

    Quote Originally Posted by John Steinke View Post
    I am puzzled by all this interest in the 2008 NEC. Why are HI's interested?

    After all, codes are NOT retroactive. The 2008 edition can be applied only to those projects whose plans were approved after the 08 edition was adopted by the local jurisdiction. I am not aware of any jurisdiction having yet adopted it.

    Add to this the idea that HI's don't inspect new construction ... and I would expect this discussion to lay dormant for another year or two.
    Prep work, some areas will start to adopt in fairly short order, and it's always easier to stay just a little ahead instead of trying to catch up later.


  23. #23
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    Default Re: 2008 NEC Update

    NEC 210.52 be tamper-resistant outlets...

    NEC 210.12 has expanded the requirement for combination AFCIs to protect additional circuits in most of the rooms that are found in NEC 210.52(A)—those rooms that are required to have receptacle spacing around the room, along with closets and hallways. The change in test button color also is explained by the change from the branch feeder AFCI to combination AFCI. You may recall the combination AFCI requirements will go into effect January 1, 2008, based on an effective date that was in NEC-2005. The test button color is one method that manufacturers are using to support easier inspection.

    Interesting link, Micheal, Thanks!

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Dallas, Texas

  24. #24
    Anthony Alderman's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2008 NEC Update

    It is my understanding that NC adopts as of Jan 1.


  25. #25
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    Default Re: 2008 NEC Update

    So many code changes, so little time!
    California’s Electric Code is the 2008 NEC and has been adopted Jan. 1, 2008..
    NEC Section 406 is full of changes and darn good ones.
    Au revoir “lighting fixtures” – bonjour “luminairs.”

    Jerry McCarthy
    Building Code/ Construction Consultant

  26. #26
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    Default Re: 2008 NEC Update

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry McCarthy View Post
    Au revoir “lighting fixtures” – bonjour “luminairs.”
    Jerry Mc.,

    Hope you don't mind me using quote for your posts ...

    Along with the introduction of "luminaire" came a definition, which helped more than many may realize.

    From the 2008 NEC (slightly changed from previous versions of the NEC)
    Luminaire. A complete lighting unit consisting of a light source such as a lamp or lamps, together with the parts designed to position the light source and connect it to the power supply. It may also include parts to protect the light source or the ballast or to distribute the light. A lampholder itself is not a luminaire.

    Since the introduction of "luminaire" came the inclusion of "consisting of a light source such as a lamp or lamps, together with", i.e., until the electrician/builder/whomever installs the lamps, it is not a "luminaire".

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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    www.AskCodeMan.com

  27. #27
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    Default Re: 2008 NEC Update

    I know this thread start 2007, and last post to it in 09.

    But Jerry post about tall people, made my day.

    Randy Newman wrote a song about short people.

    And GFCI receptacles save Lifes, so now invite your tall friends and play
    basket ball inside your garge.


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