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  1. #1
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    Default No GFCI receptacles or breakers?

    My sister-in-law just purchased a new home. The panelboard is relatively new (10 +/-) years old.

    I noticed today that there were no 20 amp circuits servicing the countertops or bathrooms and that none of the receptacles or circuits are GFCI protected.

    The home was inspected but this was not written up. I did not think that the grandfather rules protected circuits when the panel was upgraded from 100 amp to 150 amp.

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: No GFCI receptacles or breakers?

    A service upgrade will not change the size of any of the branch circuit wiring . It also does not trigger any gfi requirements.

    All answers based on unamended National Electrical codes.

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    Default Re: No GFCI receptacles or breakers?

    When upgrading the panel GFCI protection should have been added.

    Chicagopropertyinspection.com

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    Default Re: No GFCI receptacles or breakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Elliott View Post
    When upgrading the panel GFCI protection should have been added.
    Is that a local requirement? It is not an NEC requirement.

    All answers based on unamended National Electrical codes.

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    Default Re: No GFCI receptacles or breakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
    Is that a local requirement? It is not an NEC requirement.
    When upgrading a system like Electric something as basic as safety should be addressed.I am a Home Inspector and not a code Inspector.Code Inspectors are AHJ and have no liability plus spend a small amount of time on site as compared to a private Inspector who does not address code other than to back up findings.We are usually on property to represent the client [ buyer ] and find issues that effect evaluation of the property.

    Jim codes are great but my job is to put in the report what is best and should be done which goes beyond codes of any locality.

    P.S he said newer home >

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
    Is that a local requirement? It is not an NEC requirement.
    When upgrading a system like Electric something as basic as safety should be addressed.I am a Home Inspector and not a code Inspector.Code Inspectors are AHJ and have no liability plus spend a small amount of time on site as compared to a private Inspector who does not address code other than to back up findings.We are usually on property to represent the client [ buyer ] and find issues that effect evaluation of the property.

    Jim codes are great but my job is to put in the report what is best and should be done which goes beyond codes of any locality.

    P.S he said newer home >

    Chicagopropertyinspection.com

  6. #6
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    Default Re: No GFCI receptacles or breakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
    Is that a local requirement? It is not an NEC requirement.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Elliott View Post
    When upgrading a system like Electric something as basic as safety should be addressed.
    Bill,

    You said "should" ... Jim took that as implying that you were referring to a "requirement" for it to be done.

    I am a Home Inspector and not a code Inspector.Code Inspectors are AHJ and have no liability plus spend a small amount of time on site as compared to a private Inspector who does not address code other than to back up findings.We are usually on property to represent the client [ buyer ] and find issues that effect evaluation of the property.

    Jim codes are great but my job is to put in the report what is best and should be done which goes beyond codes of any locality.

    P.S he said newer home >
    Bill, now to the basis of your argument (debate basis) - you are a "home inspector" and not a "code inspector", therefore the home inspector is saying that GFCI protection "should" be added when the panel is replaced ... which is a false assumption for a home inspector - the home inspector "should" be calling out for GFCI protection in every place where GFCI protection is not present ... regardless of whether any electrical work done or not.

    A "home inspector" "should" call out GFCI protection in any wet area, required by code or not, and regardless of any work of any kind has been done - you raised the "safety" flag and that would be the "safety" way to address GFCI protection,

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  7. #7
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    Default Re: No GFCI receptacles or breakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Wood View Post
    The correct answer was posted already.
    It was?

    And just which post and answer was that?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

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    Default Re: No GFCI receptacles or breakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Wood View Post
    But you would be best served to have some GFCI protection added upstream of Bedrooms, Kitchen and Bathroom. You can even have them doubled but this is redundant.
    The CEC requires GFCI protection for bedrooms?


  9. #9
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    Default Re: No GFCI receptacles or breakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Wood View Post
    Mine but Jims is correct too.
    This?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Wood View Post
    But you would be best served to have some GFCI protection added upstream of Bedrooms, Kitchen and Bathroom. You can even have them doubled but this is redundant.
    That's not a correct answer. Partially correct ... okay, I'll give you that ... but not "The correct answer was posted already." as you stated.

    There is really no need for GFCI protection on bedroom receptacles, at least not any more need than on living room, family room, den, etc., receptacles. Is that a requirement in Canada?

    GFCI protection wet areas (which is what I said), yes, but unless someone is a real bad bed wetter ... I wouldn't consider a bedroom a wet area.

    Remember, we are talking about GFCI protection, not AFCI protection - GFCI protection protects a person using something which is plugged in, in case the thing they are using has a ground fault. AFCI protection is for the circuits themselves, so that is needed for bedroom circuits.


    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  10. #10
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    Default Re: No GFCI receptacles or breakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Wood View Post
    Best served
    I also highlighted it in my post.
    Fish aquarium, bar sink and the most famous, waterbed. Also kids love there games in bed. LOL
    I don't know what you're smoking ... and I don't want to know either.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  11. #11
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    Default Re: No GFCI receptacles or breakers?

    I really wish that Canada spoke English more clearly. Last week I learned that yes means something different depending on which side of the border you are on. Now this cryptic mess. Maybe the smoke from Colorado is drifting north?

    All answers based on unamended National Electrical codes.

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    Default Re: No GFCI receptacles or breakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Elliott View Post
    When upgrading the panel GFCI protection should have been added.
    My point was there is no code basis for this to be added unlike when a circuit that requires AFCI protection is modified.

    210.12 Arc-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection.
    (A) Definition: Arc-Fault Circuit Interrupter (AFCI). A
    device intended to provide protection from the effects of
    arc faults by recognizing characteristics unique to arcing
    and by functioning to de-energize the circuit when an arc
    fault is detected.
    (B) Dwelling Units. All 120-volt, single phase, 15- and
    20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets installed in
    dwelling unit family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms,
    parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation
    rooms, closets, hallways, or similar rooms or areas shall be
    protected by a listed arc-fault circuit interrupter,
    combination-type, installed to provide protection of the
    branch circuit.
    FPN No. 1: For information on types of arc-fault circuit
    interrupters, see UL 1699-1999, Standard for Arc-Fault
    Circuit Interrupters.
    FPN No. 2: See 11.6.3(5) of NFPA 72®-2007, National
    Fire Alarm Code®, for information related to secondary
    power supply requirements for smoke alarms installed in
    dwelling units.
    FPN No. 3: See 760.41(B) and 760.121(B) for powersupply
    requirements for fire alarm systems.
    Exception No. 1: Where RMC, IMC, EMT or steel armored
    cable, Type AC, meeting the requirements of 250.118 using
    metal outlet and junction boxes is installed for the portion
    of the branch circuit between the branch-circuit overcurrent
    device and the first outlet, it shall be permitted to
    install a combination AFCI at the first outlet to provide
    protection for the remaining portion of the branch circuit.
    Exception No. 2: Where a branch circuit to a fire alarm
    system installed in accordance with 760.41(B) and
    760.121(B) is installed in RMC, IMC, EMT, or steel armored
    cable, Type AC, meeting the requirements of
    250.118, with metal outlet and junction boxes, AFCI protection
    shall be permitted to be omitted.

    As an HI you can cite whatever make you happy, but your use of "should" made it sound like there was a code basis and the installation did not meet accepted standards.

    For your quote it sounds like you would not say the same thing had the panel not been changed.

    All answers based on unamended National Electrical codes.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: No GFCI receptacles or breakers?

    Back to the original post! Yes, the home should have GFCI protection in all exterior, bathroom and kitchen outlets. And, YES, the home inspector should have noted that the home did not have GFCI protection and that the counter outlets were not 20amp…. Red Flag that the upgrade was not permitted.

    Oh' also no such thing as "Grandfather Rules"……. This is just folklore perpetuated by real estate agents!

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  14. #14
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    Default Re: No GFCI receptacles or breakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Wood View Post
    Why not bedrooms and laundry.
    Not required in the States unless you have a sink in the laundry room.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

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    Default Re: No GFCI receptacles or breakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Bill,

    You said "should" ... Jim took that as implying that you were referring to a "requirement" for it to be done.



    Bill, now to the basis of your argument (debate basis) - you are a "home inspector" and not a "code inspector", therefore the home inspector is saying that GFCI protection "should" be added when the panel is replaced ... which is a false assumption for a home inspector - the home inspector "should" be calling out for GFCI protection in every place where GFCI protection is not present ... regardless of whether any electrical work done or not.

    A "home inspector" "should" call out GFCI protection in any wet area, required by code or not, and regardless of any work of any kind has been done - you raised the "safety" flag and that would be the "safety" way to address GFCI protection,
    Home Inspectors are paid to notice what is wrong Perry.Nah "gonna be nice Terry"....eh Jerry...... even if your attention to detail is lacking enough to not know my name after all these years.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Bill,

    You said "should" ... Jim took that as implying that you were referring to a "requirement" for it to be done.



    Bill, now to the basis of your argument (debate basis) - you are a "home inspector" and not a "code inspector", therefore the home inspector is saying that GFCI protection "should" be added when the panel is replaced ... which is a false assumption for a home inspector - the home inspector "should" be calling out for GFCI protection in every place where GFCI protection is not present ... regardless of whether any electrical work done or not.

    A "home inspector" "should" call out GFCI protection in any wet area, required by code or not, and regardless of any work of any kind has been done - you raised the "safety" flag and that would be the "safety" way to address GFCI protection,
    Home Inspectors are paid to notice what is wrong Perry.Nah "gonna be nice Terry"....eh Jerry...... even if your attention to detail is lacking enough to not know my name after all these years.

    Chicagopropertyinspection.com

  16. #16
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    Default Re: No GFCI receptacles or breakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Elliott View Post
    Home Inspectors are paid to notice what is wrong Perry.Nah "gonna be nice Terry"....eh Jerry...... even if your attention to detail is lacking enough to not know my name after all these years.
    My apologies for the name typo Bob ... but ... in all fairness ... your name does have "B", "i", and "ll" in it.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  17. #17
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    Default Re: No GFCI receptacles or breakers?

    At least here in Washington we are required to "Recommend" GFCI installation where currently required. Since we are under the 2014 NEC that has expanded to dishwasher circuits, laundry areas, receptacles unders the kitchen sink.

    Washington also as an amendment that

    "All fixed electrical equipment with exposed grounded metal parts within an enclosed shower area or within five feet of the top inside edge of a bathtub must have ground fault circuit interrupter protection"

    If you do that upgrade then you also need AFCI protection unless it is in the bathroom which is still exempt from that requirement.

    Don Hester
    NCW Home Inspections, LLC
    Wa. St. Licensed H I #647, WSDA #80050, http://www.ncwhomeinspections.com

  18. #18
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    Default Re: No GFCI receptacles or breakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    My apologies for the name typo Bob ... but ... in all fairness ... your name does have "B", "i", and "ll" in it.
    Last year I had clients doing the same [ ran in a streak ] however many call me Condo Bob and Condo Bill does not have the same ring to it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    My apologies for the name typo Bob ... but ... in all fairness ... your name does have "B", "i", and "ll" in it.
    Last year I had clients doing the same [ ran in a streak ] however many call me Condo Bob and Condo Bill does not have the same ring to it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    My apologies for the name typo Bob ... but ... in all fairness ... your name does have "B", "i", and "ll" in it. <img src="images/smilies/cool.png" border="0" alt="" title="Cool" smilieid="6" class="inlineimg">
    <br>
    <br>Last year I had clients doing the same &nbsp;[ ran in a streak ] however many call me Condo Bob and Condo Bill does not have the same ring to it.

    Many clients call me Condo Bob and Condo Bill does not have the same ring to it.

    Did have a streak last year when many called me Bill by accident last year for some reason.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    My apologies for the name typo Bob ... but ... in all fairness ... your name does have "B", "i", and "ll" in it. <img src="images/smilies/cool.png" border="0" alt="" title="Cool" smilieid="6" class="inlineimg">
    <br>
    <br>Last year I had clients doing the same &nbsp;[ ran in a streak ] however many call me Condo Bob and Condo Bill does not have the same ring to it.

    Many clients call me Condo Bob and Condo Bill does not have the same ring to it.

    Did have a streak last year when many called me Bill by accident last year for some reason.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    My apologies for the name typo Bob ... but ... in all fairness ... your name does have "B", "i", and "ll" in it. &lt;img src="images/smilies/cool.png" border="0" alt="" title="Cool" smilieid="6" class="inlineimg"&gt;
    &lt;br&gt;<br>
    &lt;br&gt;Last year I had clients doing the same &amp;nbsp;[ ran in a streak ] however many call me Condo Bob and Condo Bill does not have the same ring to it.<br><br>Many clients call me Condo Bob and Condo Bill does not have the same ring to it.<br><br>
    Did have a streak last year when many called me Bill by accident last year for some reason.

    Chicagopropertyinspection.com

  19. #19
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    Default Re: No GFCI receptacles or breakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    My apologies for the name typo Bob ... but ... in all fairness ... your name does have "B", "i", and "ll" in it. &lt;img src="images/smilies/cool.png" border="0" alt="" title="Cool" smilieid="6" class="inlineimg"&gt;
    &lt;br&gt;<br>
    &lt;br&gt;Last year I had clients doing the same &amp;nbsp;[ ran in a streak ] however many call me Condo Bob and Condo Bill does not have the same ring to it.<br><br>Many clients call me Condo Bob and Condo Bill does not have the same ring to it.<br><br>
    Did have a streak last year when many called me Bill by accident last year for some reason.

    Chicagopropertyinspection.com

  20. #20
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    Default Re: No GFCI receptacles or breakers?

    This thread gives credence to the fact that, in spite of governmental regulations and requirements as well as trade associations' standards, home inspectors and the home inspection industry follow no hard and fast rules or concepts. If a home were to be made "safe" for occupants in accordance with all currently established criteria, it would have to be brought into conformance with all of those criteria including the installation of a fire suppression sprinkler system. Since we can't be too careful, we might as well toss in a storm shelter, security wall and gate, and a home security system for good measure.

    Unless required by specific governmental regulations, home inspections are not assessments for conformance with any past or present governmental building codes or requirements. While building codes can serve as guides for understanding building construction and the evolution of the reduction of the potential for injury in terms of use, installation, assembly, and operation, they do not comprise the standard for home inspections

    The primary task of home inspectors is to conduct a primarily visual property condition assessment. It is an examination of a home’s readily accessible systems and components in accordance with all applicable governmental requirements and trade association standards for conditions which are adversely affecting or which have the potential to adversely affect their normally intended functions or operations.

    The normally intended functions or operations of systems and components can be defined as the customary and conventional purpose or use for which they were installed and for which they were designed and intended by their manufacturers. While part of such normally intended functions or operations often incorporates safety of use, installation, assembly, and operation that does not mean and should not be extrapolated to imply that the primary task of home inspectors is to perform "safety" inspections.

    Further, home inspectors are not hired as super heroes (my own abilities were never "far above those of mortal men"). I have heard some inspectors describe their primary job as protecting their customers from dangerous homes, dishonest sellers, and greedy real estate agents. Why not add Godzilla and the Walking Dead?

    Home inspectors are typically engaged by prospective home buyers concomitant with real estate sales transactions. However, this in no way makes them parties to any contracts, negotiations, or agreements between their customers and any third parties, particularly home sellers and real estate agents. Yet, too many home inspectors do, say, and write things which can be considered by attorneys and courts as making them parties to such contracts, negotiations, and agreements.

    It's far past time for the home inspection industry to step back and reassess exactly what defines the responsibilities and and limits the job of a home inspector. Otherwise, the chaotic, quasi-schizophrenic direction in which the industry is heading will only become more vague and misunderstood by practitioners as well as by customers and the real estate profession.


  21. #21
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    Default Re: No GFCI receptacles or breakers?

    Kevin, good read and spot on!

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

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    Default Re: No GFCI receptacles or breakers?

    Thanks, Scott; it's nice to know that I'm not a lone voice in the wilderness.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Thanks, Scott; it's nice to know that I'm not a lone voice in the wilderness.


  23. #23
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    Default Re: No GFCI receptacles or breakers?

    SOP of association or of State is the minimal standard and though some are more than happy to stick to that standard the good Inspectors go beyond.

    No different than a builder who claims everything is to code .It is the minimum allowed and that is not the same as quality so I try not to get into long drawn out arguments with minimalists as the market gets rid of them over time.

    Everything is about time and money .[ T &M ]
    Whose time and whose money.....hopefully not my clients.

    That's who I work for.

    Texas has strict guidelines with goofy requirements and I doubt anyone not there wants to be forced into checkboxes.

    Chicagopropertyinspection.com

  24. #24
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    Default Re: No GFCI receptacles or breakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Elliott View Post
    SOP of association or of State is the minimal standard and though some are more than happy to stick to that standard the good Inspectors go beyond.

    No different than a builder who claims everything is to code .It is the minimum allowed and that is not the same as quality so I try not to get into long drawn out arguments with minimalists as the market gets rid of them over time.
    At least some recognize that "less" *is not* "more" - those who wish to do less (and there are a lot of those) ... so be it ... but for the better and more advanced - keep on progressing, learning more, doing more, expecting more of yourself, and getting paid more.

    Let those who 'long for the old days' keep doing as it was done in 'the old days' ... the rest will continue to grow and get better at what they do.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  25. #25
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    Default Re: No GFCI receptacles or breakers?

    I agree, SOP's and Codes are minimums. At least here in Wash. the SOP does say we can do more "if" qualified to do so.

    WAC 308-408C-030

    "Inspectors are not limited from examining other systems and components or including other inspection services. Likewise, if the inspector is qualified and willing to do so, an inspector may specify the type of repairs to be made."


    “Codes are minimum standards and most houses are built by the lowest bidder”
    Don Hester

    Don Hester
    NCW Home Inspections, LLC
    Wa. St. Licensed H I #647, WSDA #80050, http://www.ncwhomeinspections.com

  26. #26
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    Default Re: No GFCI receptacles or breakers?

    I kind of think that home inspectors should strive to be "super heroes" or at least "super inspectors." We can do so much more than the minimum--and with with minimum effort. Not to mention that we can get paid much more for doing more. Those that strive to do the minimum will continue to do so, but I will be dammed if I will let them dictate what I can do for my clients by some self-serving minimalist maximum standard of care.
    Fighting for the minimum is merely an effort to prevent them from having to keep up with those doing more. Doing more not only raises the expectations of those we inspect for, but it also helps us keep up with the ever increasing expectations of our clients.
    Some inspectors will no doubt be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century of inspecting or they will retire.
    Some ask, but where will it end? I say there is no end--any perceived end is but an arbitrary illusion that does not benefit the consumer.
    I think I need to go test a self-testing dual function GFCI/AFCI device now.


  27. #27
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    Default Re: No GFCI receptacles or breakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Hester View Post
    I agree, SOP's and Codes are minimums. At least here in Wash. the SOP does say we can do more "if" qualified to do so.

    WAC 308-408C-030

    "Inspectors are not limited from examining other systems and components or including other inspection services. Likewise, if the inspector is qualified and willing to do so, an inspector may specify the type of repairs to be made."


    “Codes are minimum standards and most houses are built by the lowest bidder”
    Don Hester
    Don, I'm not aware of any State or Association SOP that would restrict a person from exceeding their SOP. It just would not make any sense. Most in fact say just like Washington State that you can exceed the SOP.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  28. #28
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    Default Re: No GFCI receptacles or breakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    Don, I'm not aware of any State or Association SOP that would restrict a person from exceeding their SOP. It just would not make any sense. Most in fact say just like Washington State that you can exceed the SOP.
    Scott, Well I agree, but I see where many inspectors out there who quote that you must stick to the SOP and not exceed it whether it is a State or Asso. SOP.

    The sad part is there are those out there where even making the minimum is a challenge.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    Don, I'm not aware of any State or Association SOP that would restrict a person from exceeding their SOP. It just would not make any sense. Most in fact say just like Washington State that you can exceed the SOP.
    Scott, Well I agree, but I see where many inspectors out there who quote that you must stick to the SOP and not exceed it whether it is a State or Asso. SOP.

    The sad part is there are those out there where even making the minimum is a challenge.

    Don Hester
    NCW Home Inspections, LLC
    Wa. St. Licensed H I #647, WSDA #80050, http://www.ncwhomeinspections.com

  29. #29
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    Default Re: No GFCI receptacles or breakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Hester View Post
    Scott, Well I agree, but I see where many inspectors out there who quote that you must stick to the SOP and not exceed it whether it is a State or Asso. SOP.

    The sad part is there are those out there where even making the minimum is a challenge.

    - - - Updated - - -
    I know, I hear it all the time from new and semi experienced inspectors. It's funny how I can't recall the last time I heard an experienced inspector (been in business for more than 5+ years) say that they only follow the SOP.

    I know for sure that it is perpetuated by some of the marketing gurus, an attorney who defends just home inspectors and it is taught in some of the schools. Basically it comes from folks who are not inspecting homes any longer or have never inspected homes. Disclaimer, I do teach for The ASHI School….

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

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    Default Re: No GFCI receptacles or breakers?

    Adding GFCI protection where currently required is good, but........ Someone has to be willing to pay for it when not required to add it unless modifications were being done to the circuits.


  31. #31
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    Default Re: No GFCI receptacles or breakers?

    Since the 2011 NEC is adopted in an area, 406.4(D)(3) has required replacement receptacles to be GFCI-protected.The protection can be either in them or upstream.

    This established pretty clearly the generally recognized standard of safely IMO.


  32. #32
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    Default Re: No GFCI receptacles or breakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by david shapiro View Post
    Since the 2011 NEC is adopted in an area, 406.4(D)(3) has required replacement receptacles to be GFCI-protected.The protection can be either in them or upstream.

    This established pretty clearly the generally recognized standard of safely IMO.
    But, as long as no replacements have occurred there is NO requirement to replace them, not a bad idea but not required.


  33. #33
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    Default Re: No GFCI receptacles or breakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rollie Meyers View Post
    But, as long as no replacements have occurred there is NO requirement to replace them, not a bad idea but not required.
    Quite right. Though I believe it's <i>still</i> your responsibility as a HI, and mine when I'm there as a consultant, to talk safety as well as or more than just legality.

    Now if someone was so forward-thinking as to install any Tamper-Resistant (TR) receptacles, perhaps to make the house more appealing to families with small kids, it's fairly likely that this was done recently enough for the requirement to apply, depending on the jurisdiction's Code-adoption strategy. And I have seen people upgrade receptacles--even to TR--without realizing that this kicks in GFCI requirements.


  34. #34
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    Default Re: No GFCI receptacles or breakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by david shapiro View Post
    Since the 2011 NEC is adopted in an area, 406.4(D)(3) has required replacement receptacles to be GFCI-protected.The protection can be either in them or upstream.
    That replacement requirement has been in the NEC for many, many editions.

    As Rollie said - if it has not been replaced ... no GFCI requirement.

    As you said - for home inspectors ... call out GFCI protection for all wet areas.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  35. #35
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    Default Re: No GFCI receptacles or breakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    That replacement requirement has been in the NEC for many, many editions.

    As Rollie said - if it has not been replaced ... no GFCI requirement.

    As you said - for home inspectors ... call out GFCI protection for all wet areas.
    I stand corrected; thank you, Jerry. The requirement was first adopted, in the 1993 <i>NEC</i>, as 210.7(d), and has moved around a bit since then.


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