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  1. #1
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    Mar 2007
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    Default AFCI Outlet Device

    Hi folks,


    New construction, not occupied. There was one AFCI breaker in the garage panel. There were a few other outlet-type AFCI devices protecting receptacle outlets in the interior. Lights were not protected as far as I could determine.


    My understanding is that AFCI protection is required at the panel, unless the cable between the panel and the first outlet device is RMC, IMC, EMT, MC or AC; or embedded in concrete (CEC Article 210.12 A Exception 1). Also, ALL outlets (light, smokes, receptacle outlets, etc.) are required to be AFCI protected.


    I haven't run into AFCI outlets before, so I was unsure. Do I have it right?

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: AFCI Outlet Device

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar Alquist View Post
    There was one AFCI breaker in the garage panel. There were a few other outlet-type AFCI devices protecting receptacle outlets in the interior. Lights were not protected as far as I could determine.
    The lights are required to be AFCI protected. What NEC edition does CA use? 2011? 2014?

    My understanding is that AFCI protection is required at the panel, unless the cable between the panel and the first outlet device is RMC, IMC, EMT, MC or AC; or embedded in concrete (CEC Article 210.12 A Exception 1). Also, ALL outlets (light, smokes, receptacle outlets, etc.) are required to be AFCI protected.

    I haven't run into AFCI outlets before, so I was unsure. Do I have it right?
    The 2014 NEC makes it a lot more complicated. I didn't put all those complications in my AFCI list as it would take up half a page.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  3. #3
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    2,479

    Default Re: AFCI Outlet Device

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    The lights are required to be AFCI protected. What NEC edition does CA use? 2011? 2014?
    Hi Jerry,

    Thanks. Pretty much what I thought.

    CA uses the 2013 California Electric Code which is based on the 2011 NEC. Next update is 2016 which will incorporate the 2013 NEC.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    The 2014 NEC makes it a lot more complicated. I didn't put all those complications in my AFCI list as it would take up half a page.
    Great. Maybe I will retire before then. Fortunately, I mostly inspect existing buildings, so it will be a while before I start seeing 2014 requirements. Is this on your website for free download by ME???

    Kevin,

    Not a code inspection. Pre-sale. Nonetheless, I try to get things right. BTW, no AFCI redundancy that I could find. I couldn't figure out what the one AFCI breaker in the panel did. Tripped it and couldn't find any protected circuits.

    Department of Redundancy Department
    http://www.FullCircleInspect.com/

  4. #4
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    Default Re: AFCI Outlet Device

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar Alquist View Post
    Great. Maybe I will retire before then. Fortunately, I mostly inspect existing buildings, so it will be a while before I start seeing 2014 requirements. Is this on your website for free download by ME???
    Gunnar,

    Inspectors

    Just for you ... no one else can see them ... bottom of the electrical column - oh, wait, that just let everyone else know where to look ... OH DARN!

    Want me to add you to my newsletter email list so I send them to you when I send them out? Just let me know, PM, email, or post it here ... same for everyone else, just let me know - send me your email address.

    Last edited by Jerry Peck; 10-13-2015 at 07:53 PM. Reason: added part about signing up for newsletter
    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  5. #5
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    Cool Re: AFCI Outlet Device

    Wow, derating and all kinds of other nifty stuff! You shouldn't give this stuff out for free.

    Ummm... forget I said that.

    Department of Redundancy Department
    http://www.FullCircleInspect.com/

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
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    north carolina
    Posts
    22

    Default Re: AFCI Outlet Device

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Gunnar,

    Inspectors

    Just for you ... no one else can see them ... bottom of the electrical column - oh, wait, that just let everyone else know where to look ... OH DARN!

    Want me to add you to my newsletter email list so I send them to you when I send them out? Just let me know, PM, email, or post it here ... same for everyone else, just let me know - send me your email address.
    Mr Peck- I would appreciate anything you send out- jdpavan@gmail.com


  7. #7
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    Default Re: AFCI Outlet Device

    Quote Originally Posted by JOHN PAVAN View Post
    Mr Peck- I would appreciate anything you send out- jdpavan@gmail.com
    John,

    I've added you to my email list, thank you.

    Previous newsletters can be read/downloaded here: http://jerrypeck.com/IFCN/IFCN.htm

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  8. #8
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    Jul 2012
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    north carolina
    Posts
    22

    Default Re: AFCI Outlet Device

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    John,

    I've added you to my email list, thank you.

    Previous newsletters can be read/downloaded here: http://jerrypeck.com/IFCN/IFCN.htm

    GREAT. I really appreciate your willingness to share the depth of knowledge you possess.


  9. #9
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    Mar 2007
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    Chandler, AZ
    Posts
    119

    Default Re: AFCI Outlet Device

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    John,

    I've added you to my email list, thank you.

    Previous newsletters can be read/downloaded here: http://jerrypeck.com/IFCN/IFCN.htm

    Jerry, please add me too. Cheers!
    Dave
    BuyersSellersPi@aol.com

    Dave Hill
    Buyers & Sellers Property Inspections LLC
    WWW.BuyersSellersPi.Com

  10. #10

    Default Re: AFCI Outlet Device

    Jerry,

    I would appreciate being added to your email list for this.
    tim@nittygrittyinspections.com
    Thank You!

    Tim Kaiser

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Gunnar,

    Inspectors

    Just for you ... no one else can see them ... bottom of the electrical column - oh, wait, that just let everyone else know where to look ... OH DARN!

    Want me to add you to my newsletter email list so I send them to you when I send them out? Just let me know, PM, email, or post it here ... same for everyone else, just let me know - send me your email address.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
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    United States
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    2

    Default Re: AFCI Outlet Device

    Jerry,
    Please add me to your mailing list, great information.

    Bill.atchley@gmail.com


  12. #12
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    Default Re: AFCI Outlet Device

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Hill View Post
    Jerry, please add me too. Cheers!
    Dave
    BuyersSellersPi@aol.com
    Dave,

    I will add you to my newsletter mailing list when I get back to my office.

    Thank you.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  13. #13

    Default Re: AFCI Outlet Device

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar Alquist View Post
    Hi folks,


    New construction, not occupied. There was one AFCI breaker in the garage panel. There were a few other outlet-type AFCI devices protecting receptacle outlets in the interior. Lights were not protected as far as I could determine.


    My understanding is that AFCI protection is required at the panel, unless the cable between the panel and the first outlet device is RMC, IMC, EMT, MC or AC; or embedded in concrete (CEC Article 210.12 A Exception 1). Also, ALL outlets (light, smokes, receptacle outlets, etc.) are required to be AFCI protected.


    I haven't run into AFCI outlets before, so I was unsure. Do I have it right?
    Please check for the AHJ electrical buyoff label that should be affixed on the premises equipment or contact the local building department to find out what the electrical code adoption is compliant to in the area. The Cali State requirements do not comply totally within the 2014 NEC code cycle.

    Your interpretation of the latest NEC may be correct but some local AHJ's overrule or add various AFCI usage requirements. Make your report stating that there must be approved labeling indicating the electrical wiring has been AHJ certified for the new construction compliance. Let the local code directives carry the liability...by a qualified AHJ electrical inspector.


  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Maryland, DC, and Northern Virginia, electrical only
    Posts
    116

    Default Re: AFCI Outlet Device

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar Alquist View Post
    Hi folks,


    New construction, not occupied. There was one AFCI breaker in the garage panel. There were a few other outlet-type AFCI devices protecting receptacle outlets in the interior. Lights were not protected as far as I could determine.


    My understanding is that AFCI protection is required at the panel, unless the cable between the panel and the first outlet device is RMC, IMC, EMT, MC or AC; or embedded in concrete (CEC Article 210.12 A Exception 1). Also, ALL outlets (light, smokes, receptacle outlets, etc.) are required to be AFCI protected.


    I haven't run into AFCI outlets before, so I was unsure. Do I have it right?
    Jerry's right about the lights.
    As for the complicated requirements, 2014's 210.12(A)(4) simplifies things, in that even with new wiring you don't need the (nobody makes one) supplemental arc protection circuit breaker so long as the AFCI device is within 50-70 ft of the CB, depending on gage, measured along the cable. Whether the AHJ would accept compliance with a later version of the NEC is uncertain but possible. But this is irrelevant if the lighting is on a different circuit. Still and all, so long as certain mistakes are absent, correcting this is not a big deal.


  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Default Re: AFCI Outlet Device

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Hill View Post
    Jerry, please add me too. Cheers!
    Dave
    BuyersSellersPi@aol.com
    Dave,

    I've added you to the email distribution list too.

    Thank you,

    Jerry

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Safety Harbor, FL
    Posts
    68

    Default Re: AFCI Outlet Device

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Gunnar,

    Inspectors

    Just for you ... no one else can see them ... bottom of the electrical column - oh, wait, that just let everyone else know where to look ... OH DARN!

    Want me to add you to my newsletter email list so I send them to you when I send them out? Just let me know, PM, email, or post it here ... same for everyone else, just let me know - send me your email address.
    Jerry,
    Would like for you to add me to your newsletter subscriber list. Thanks!
    onthegulf1@me.com


  17. #17
    Join Date
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    Default Re: AFCI Outlet Device

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Wisnewski View Post
    Jerry,
    Would like for you to add me to your newsletter subscriber list. Thanks!
    onthegulf1@me.com
    Bob,

    I've added you to my newsletter distribution email list.

    Thank you,

    Jerry

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    california
    Posts
    65

    Default Re: AFCI Outlet Device

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Bob,

    I've added you to my newsletter distribution email list.

    Thank you,

    Jerry
    If you have a news letter which will supply me with any needed information useful to my inspection construction business please add me
    Thanks
    Frazier

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Bob,

    I've added you to my newsletter distribution email list.

    Thank you,

    Jerry
    If you have a news letter which will supply me with any needed information useful to my inspection construction business please add me
    Thanks
    Frazier

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Bob,

    I've added you to my newsletter distribution email list.

    Thank you,

    Jerry
    If you have a news letter which will supply me with any needed information useful to my inspection construction business please add me
    Thanks
    Frazier


  19. #19
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    Default Re: AFCI Outlet Device

    Quote Originally Posted by frazier jeffery View Post
    If you have a news letter which will supply me with any needed information useful to my inspection construction business please add me
    Thanks
    Frazier
    Frazier,

    I don't know if you need the information or not ... ... send me a PM with your email address and I will add you to my newsletter distribution list.

    Thank you,

    Jerry

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  20. #20

    Default Re: AFCI Outlet Device

    Quote Originally Posted by david shapiro View Post
    Jerry's right about the lights.
    As for the complicated requirements, 2014's 210.12(A)(4) simplifies things, in that even with new wiring you don't need the (nobody makes one) supplemental arc protection circuit breaker so long as the AFCI device is within 50-70 ft of the CB, depending on gage, measured along the cable. Whether the AHJ would accept compliance with a later version of the NEC is uncertain but possible. But this is irrelevant if the lighting is on a different circuit. Still and all, so long as certain mistakes are absent, correcting this is not a big deal.
    Hi David,
    Are you the David E. Shapiro, author of YOUR OLD WIRING? If so, I think this book would be an excellent reference to home inspectors who have the need to inspect existing homes with wiring deteriorated conditions.
    Dave, I can help you update your book next edition run with the latest in electrical installation advanced dwelling wiring methods such as clean NM bundling with Dual Function technology and individual wiring termination techniques. PM email if interested. Ben


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