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  1. #1
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    Default Aluminum grounding wire attached to a non-CO/ALR outlet.

    An electrician had gone though a house and pigtailed the aluminum wiring for all the receptacle wiring....except for the ground wire which is attached to the non-CO/ALR outlet.

    I have and will call it out but the electrician disagrees. He is saying that there is a NEC code that excludes the ground wire. I, of course, ask him for the code reference but he cannot remember it. I tell him it is pretty black and white for me....there is an aluminum wire on an outlet not rated for aluminum wiring.

    I am going to stick to my guns unless anyone can give me further information/references that allows for it.

    Any information would be helpful if I am wrong.

    Thank you.

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Aluminum grounding wire attached to a non-CO/ALR outlet.

    I think it is 110.14 (A) ... I think ...

    A terminal suitable for aluminum shall be identified as such.

    Those devices are not identified as such ... there is no exception for ground wires.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Aluminum grounding wire attached to a non-CO/ALR outlet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Shapiro View Post
    An electrician had gone though a house and pigtailed the aluminum wiring for all the receptacle wiring....except for the ground wire which is attached to the non-CO/ALR outlet.

    I have and will call it out but the electrician disagrees. He is saying that there is a NEC code that excludes the ground wire. I, of course, ask him for the code reference but he cannot remember it. I tell him it is pretty black and white for me....there is an aluminum wire on an outlet not rated for aluminum wiring.

    I am going to stick to my guns unless anyone can give me further information/references that allows for it.

    Any information would be helpful if I am wrong.

    Thank you.
    Next question, how did he pigtail? Copper to aluminum with a wire nut?
    No Bueno in my opinion. Us something listed for the purpose.

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Plano, Texas

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Aluminum grounding wire attached to a non-CO/ALR outlet.

    Matt,
    Sorry to go slightly off thread.

    Two inspections last month had AL wiring.
    What is an acceptable method of CU/AL unions or pig tailing, if any?
    Thanks in advance.

    Last edited by ROBERT YOUNG; 05-05-2016 at 08:21 PM.
    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
    Call (514) 489-1887 or (514) 441-3732
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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Aluminum grounding wire attached to a non-CO/ALR outlet.

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Plano, Texas

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Aluminum grounding wire attached to a non-CO/ALR outlet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall View Post
    Copalu, Re-termination repairs along with other narrative is what I was after.
    I lost many articles folders and documents when the housekeeper mistakenly spilled water on my first AMD OS build. $4000,00 gone.

    Haven't thought of AL for some time but ran into aluminum wiring twice last week. Time to do more research.

    I recommend an CECA licensed electrician but that's too plain.
    Jim,
    Much thanks.

    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
    Call (514) 489-1887 or (514) 441-3732
    Our Motto; Putting information where you need it most, "In your hands.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Aluminum grounding wire attached to a non-CO/ALR outlet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall View Post
    Next question, how did he pigtail? Copper to aluminum with a wire nut?
    No Bueno in my opinion. Us something listed for the purpose.
    Jim,

    Good question. This electrician spent the time and effort to properly pigtail all the outlets except for the aluminum ground. He used the ideal purple nuts and the 3 lug connectors rated for the aluminum to copper. The electrician is just under some weird impression that you don't have to do the ground wire.

    I just wrote back to the client telling him I stand by my report. I am always diplomatic and advised the client to have the electrician produce the code or reference that allows this and then to seek further advise from different licensed master electrician. I then recommend that after all that, correct the issue anyways.

    Best part is this was a remodel so the client is not releasing the final payment until the outlets are properly corrected.

    Matt Shapiro

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    I think it is 110.14 (A) ... I think ...

    A terminal suitable for aluminum shall be identified as such.

    Those devices are not identified as such ... there is no exception for ground wires.


    Thank you. I found it under 406.2(C).


  8. #8
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    Default Re: Aluminum grounding wire attached to a non-CO/ALR outlet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Shapiro View Post
    I found it under 406.2(C).
    Matt,

    That addresses the rating of the receptacles, that only applies to receptacles, cord connectors, and attachment plugs.

    110.14(A) applies to all ... all ... all terminals: (underlining is mine)
    - (blah, blah, blah)
    - Terminals for more than one conductor and terminals used to connect aluminum shall be so identified.

    Many people miss the "and" in there.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  9. #9
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    Oct 2014
    Location
    Maryland, DC, and Northern Virginia, electrical only
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    116

    Default Re: Aluminum grounding wire attached to a non-CO/ALR outlet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Shapiro View Post
    An electrician had gone though a house and pigtailed the aluminum wiring for all the receptacle wiring....except for the ground wire which is attached to the non-CO/ALR outlet.

    I have and will call it out but the electrician disagrees. He is saying that there is a NEC code that excludes the ground wire.

    Any information would be helpful.
    I don't see where you're wrong. Guessing at the electrician's thinking, I see two possibilities. One, 250.120(B) says use of aluminum is permitted for grounding, under two restrictions. If that lodged in his head out of context, maybe he converted it to "can be connected to all grounding screws."

    Two, he may have mentally removed grounds from the category "conductor" because under ordinary circumstances they are not expected to conduct significant current, except for brief periods.


  10. #10
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    Feb 2016
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    PA
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    Default Re: Aluminum grounding wire attached to a non-CO/ALR outlet.

    This is not from a "code" but the Consumer Products Safety Commission has a pub that specifically addresses repairing aluminum wiring. It is a place to start.

    http://www.cpsc.gov/pagefiles/118856/516.pdf

    This was updated in 2011 with new technology so if you have the older version of the pub you should get the new one. It is a fee download.


  11. #11
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    Default Re: Aluminum grounding wire attached to a non-CO/ALR outlet.

    Quote Originally Posted by ROBERT YOUNG View Post
    the housekeeper mistakenly spilled water on my first AMD OS build. $4000,00 gone.
    Sorry to go off topic, but think important
    related to something happening to important digital information, How many backup their computers on a regular schedule.
    Even if using mobile/tablet devices need to have backups.
    technology fails no matter how careful one is.
    Having a backup strategy is better than nothing but the following are what I like best.
    backing up to remote service (The cloud, I hate that term) is OK
    However if that company decides to stop how are you getting your data, is your data protected, ease of recovery, etc.
    What I like best is for mobile devices I backup to a local desktop/laptop, pictures, other media, documents,
    Then using two portable small USB external hard drives I backup regularly, I have two local properties, I backup, take to off site property, swap with one already there, bring back home and do a backup with that one, next visit off-site I remove the current USB hard drive after a current backup and then swap out again
    At a minimum, USB external hard drives are cheap, backup and store in a fireproof safe/container.
    If documents are small amount then a small USB flash (Thumb) drive would be good, But I am also backing all my personal stuff, all my digital photos, and I scan everything into digital format these days, no file cabinet with papers and what little documentation I need paper copy of is scanned but then stored in fireproof safe and or safety deposit box at bank.

    Just backup, not tomorrow but ASAP, technology fails when need it the most, lighting fries electronics, water is hazardous to mobile devices, etc. Virus, trojan and spy-ware programs, but latest thing is ransom ware, hacker infects your machine with code that encrypts everything on your device, have to pay a lot of money if want your data back. so backups is important.


  12. #12
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    Default Re: Aluminum grounding wire attached to a non-CO/ALR outlet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Matt,

    That addresses the rating of the receptacles, that only applies to receptacles, cord connectors, and attachment plugs.

    110.14(A) applies to all ... all ... all terminals: (underlining is mine)
    - (blah, blah, blah)
    - Terminals for more than one conductor and terminals used to connect aluminum shall be so identified.

    Many people miss the "and" in there.


    Thank you.

    I did get a response from the client that said...I am paraphrasing...it was completed by a master electrician and the city signed off on it so they know better than you.

    We all know how that goes. Needless to say, I haven't lost a moment of sleep knowing I did my due diligence.

    I want to thank everyone who has commented. I have been on this site for many year and enjoy the information and banter. I do need to comment more!


  13. #13
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    Default Re: Aluminum grounding wire attached to a non-CO/ALR outlet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Shapiro View Post
    TI did get a response from the client that said...I am paraphrasing...it was completed by a master electrician and the city signed off on it so they know better than you.
    Matt,

    Here is the response for that statement:
    - "Actually, the city did not sign off on that connection, they signed off on the entire installation, basically stating that, of the things *they looked at* ... they did not find anything *bad enough* to stop the work and have it redone ... for the city to actually sign off on those connections, present those connection questions to the city and have the building official, on city letterhead, sign off and specifically state that those connections are okay. ... (pause) ... And, by the way, you are not actually trying to say that master electrician is not human and NEVER ... NEVER ... makes any errors ... are you?"

    - (wait for a response) ... something to the effect of ...
    - - 'Er, no, that's not what I am saying."

    - (you respond)
    - - "I thought not, and this is one of those times when that master electrician made an error ... more likely, that master electrician's HELPER made those errors."

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Aluminum grounding wire attached to a non-CO/ALR outlet.

    Yes, the jurisdiction has an AHJ, that does not means they are always correct. I doubt a permit was even needed for device changes, let alone one filed. Even if it was I doubt that anyone ever looked behind a cover plate to see the AL on the devices.

    All answers based on unamended National Electrical codes.

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