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  1. #1

    Default Wires, Water line, Gas line in return air duct

    Attached is a page from a report from a case I am working on.
    Can anyone help me with the code references and statement to what is wrong here.

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Wires, Water line, Gas line in return air duct

    I can't answer for the gas and water, but electric cables are permitted to run across the width of the return. They cannot run lengthwise.

    All answers based on unamended National Electrical codes.

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    Default Re: Wires, Water line, Gas line in return air duct

    Is that a Type B gas vent in that return too?

    Is that return duct covering only attached with a few screws and no gasket, sealant, or anything to seal that duct covering to the I-joists? If nothing is being used to seal the return duct (that cover to the wood), the negative pressure of the return duct will draw in air and odors of everything in that area into the return air flow.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  4. #4

    Default Re: Wires, Water line, Gas line in return air duct

    Jerry
    Email me and I will send you the hi res photos.
    This is one of my consulting projects that goes to trial on the 30th

    Mark Parlee
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    Default Re: Wires, Water line, Gas line in return air duct


  6. #6

    Default Re: Wires, Water line, Gas line in return air duct

    Thank you Raymond

    Mark Parlee
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    Default Re: Wires, Water line, Gas line in return air duct

    What type of vent is penetrating the return or duct?
    The penetration points appear open.

    vent.JPG

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  8. #8

    Default Re: Wires, Water line, Gas line in return air duct

    I believe it is the dryer vent.

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    Default Re: Wires, Water line, Gas line in return air duct

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Parlee View Post
    This is one of my consulting projects that goes to trial on the 30th
    Mark,

    Find out what code the work was done under (if done when the house was constructed, then that code).

    If there is no code applicable in that area, then use the national codes which were in effect at that time as those codes, while not 'required' by the local AHJ, would be the best 'defendable supporting documentation' as they are recognized by most insurance companies as being 'the current minimum safety standard levels necessary (versus 'required') for the purpose.

    The links Raymond provided were good starting points. I would not want to see a dryer duct in a return air duct any more than a Type B gas vent in a return air duct - not unless the dryer duct was mastic sealed and pressure tested (not even then, but at least being mastic sealed and pressure tested would be the same as a duct in a highrise shaft.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
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    Default Re: Wires, Water line, Gas line in return air duct

    Guessing or knowing?supply?
    One: The opening for the penetration is not sealed correctly.
    Two: I see Two objects Running lengthways.
    NEC Section 300-21 do not have much to say on this matter.
    NFPA 90A: An air distribution system is defined as a continuous passageway for the transmission of air.

    I can not help with the limited information at hand.

    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
    Call (514) 489-1887 or (514) 441-3732
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  11. #11

    Default Re: Wires, Water line, Gas line in return air duct

    Thanks for the help and observations. Sometimes I am operating on limited info as well and I always wish I would have done one more thing or taken one more picture.

    This is a dryer exhaust, Called and asked the guy I took with me to test the HVAC. His testimony has been excluded from the case because he was not designated in time.
    This one is a doozy and I am glad I took a healthy retainer, it's now used up and I am having trouble getting the additional retainer for trial.

    Mark Parlee
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    Default Re: Wires, Water line, Gas line in return air duct

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Parlee View Post
    ... I took a healthy retainer, it's now used up and I am having trouble getting the additional retainer for trial.
    Mark,

    This is the way I deal with retainers: I have a $3,000.00 minimum, and if there is some reason I think the minimum will not cover a month of anticipated work, I make the retainer higher ($3,000 does not go very far at $250/hr - I've worked using a $15,000.00 retainer for anticipated monthly retainer).

    I bill against the retainer as I work (spend time) on the case, when the retainer balance begins to run low, I bill for the amount necessary to bring the retainer back up to the minimum, and if there is more work to be done between the day I bill the amount and when I expect the check, I include for that also so that when the check comes in, the full minimum retainer is kept current.

    If a check is slow in coming ... i.e., they continue to expect work but 'continue to say the check will go out tomorrow' ... that is when I next work on the case ... 'tomorrow' as time permits (no check, no time for the case).


    NEVER ... NEVER ... NEVER get behind on the retainer.

    ALWAYS ... ALWAYS ... ALWAYS make sure that there is retainer left over that you return to the client at the end (this ensures the 'never, never, never' part).

    Yes, there are exceptions to every rule (except the rule which says there are exceptions to every rule - there are no exceptions to that rule ) - if I have a previous client and 'know I can trust them to get caught up' on the retainer, I will keep working as the retainer balance goes negative ... but I have to have experience with that client and know that it will go back positive again (there is always some risk in even that, but it is a risk you calculate out based on past experience with that client).

    If you have used all the retainer up and still have a lot of work to do, become 'busy' with other work - you will be surprised how quickly the retainer check will be sent out when they 'really need to get it by the end of the week' ... FedEx makes a living off those people by making overnight deliveries.

    Last edited by Jerry Peck; 08-19-2016 at 02:00 PM. Reason: Umm ... 3,000.000??? should have been 3,000.00
    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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    Default Re: Wires, Water line, Gas line in return air duct

    Great advice, Jerry.

    I performed retainer work.
    I kept all receipts, mileage, hours, and charged $100.00 hourly to get my feet wet.
    $2,000 down which is not much money to take on such liability.

    As you explained, when work is complete no more!!!
    That was when the client expected more and tried to litigate me back door through my almost 5 years closed/idled construction company.

    Much more to it than that but I won.

    Next time I will be ensure everything is understood or walk away.
    I have from several.

    All good points.

    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
    Call (514) 489-1887 or (514) 441-3732
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  14. #14

    Default Re: Wires, Water line, Gas line in return air duct

    Thanks Jerry
    I have come to most of this but it is a well laid out reminder of how to do what we do.
    I will save this post and try to read it daily to make sure I remember the finer points.

    Mark Parlee
    The Building Consultant www.thebuildingconsultant.com
    “Real Solutions for Real Problems” EDI EIFS and Building Envelope

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    Default Re: Wires, Water line, Gas line in return air duct

    Are the clients also suing the carpet and furniture manufacturer since they also produce toxic smoke when burning? Are the suing the the I joist manufacturer since they fail much earlier in a fire than dimensional framing lumber?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Are the clients also suing the carpet and furniture manufacturer since they also produce toxic smoke when burning? Are the suing the the I joist manufacturer since they fail much earlier in a fire than dimensional framing lumber?

    All answers based on unamended National Electrical codes.

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