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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    Caledon, Ontario
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    Default Breaker Securement

    Found this breaker secured with metal strapping inside service panel of geothermal heat pump. I reported that it should be in its own approved enclosure outside of the furnace.

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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Maryland
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    Default Re: Breaker Securement

    Since it probably came from the factory that way I don't see the issue. It is common to have breakers internal to HVAC units.

    All answers based on unamended National Electrical codes.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Ormond Beach, Florida
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    Default Re: Breaker Securement

    That's where the manufacturer's installation instructions (MII) would resolve the question - if the MII shows the wiring being connected to overcurrent devices in that location, then it may very well be manufacturer installed; however, it is the first time I have seen what looks to be perforated plumbers strapping used for that purpose and the strapping ends and retaining screws are suspect.

    If the installation instructions were not there, the manufacturer's name and model number could lead to the MII on an internet search, and if nothing is found, a phone call to the manufacturer should resolve the question ... if nothing is found, then I would call it out for verification against the MII.

    Looks fishy, but it might ... might ... not be fishy, might just be that red herring you hear so much about.

    I couldn't find that model number: WaterFurnace - Smarter from the Ground Up : Literature

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  4. #4
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    Feb 2008
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    Default Re: Breaker Securement

    Thanks for the feedback.

    I was able to ascertain while that is an approved location for the breakers for this model, it is not the way Water Furnace sends this model heat pump from the factory. They are shipped with a retainer clip, and the spokesperson thinks the contractor must have lost the clip or broken it so he improvised in the field.

    My report to client advised them to have the unit checked prior to close of title.

    Thanks again.

    The value of experience is not in seeing much, but in seeing wisely.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    District of Columbia
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    10

    Default Re: Breaker Securement

    There is no way that's manufacture installed. It couldn't comply with the UL listings of the breakers nor be a listed use for the strapping!

    More interestingly, think about what we can't see: the back of those breakers are meant to be snapped in to a panel bar. My guess is that the wires are just wedged in to each breaker. Right next to (and uninsulated from) the case of the unit. At least there's a ground nearby.


  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Eastern Shore of MD, NEC 2008
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    93

    Default Re: Breaker Securement

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Winston View Post

    More interestingly, think about what we can't see: the back of those breakers are meant to be snapped in to a panel bar. My guess is that the wires are just wedged in to each breaker. Right next to (and uninsulated from) the case of the unit. At least there's a ground nearby.
    Those are feed through breakers, they do not attach/snap into a panel bus bar. They have line and load terminals for wire type conductors only.


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    District of Columbia
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    Default Re: Breaker Securement

    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Guridi View Post
    Those are feed through breakers, they do not attach/snap into a panel bus bar. They have line and load terminals for wire type conductors only.
    I stand corrected, I guess? When I google feed-through breakers, all I get are reconditioned units for sale (and, big commercial-sized breakers). Are such things still sold? I've never seen one. You can't actually tell from the pic, can you, that they are feed-through? That is, I'm guessing that you're just assuming that? Or is there some detail that gives it away? Thanks for making me aware of those...

    Thing is, if they're feed-through, how are they supposed to be mounted to a surface? Surely not with plumbing strapping! I would expect mounting tabs or clips, or something...

    I would love a pic of the back side of those breakers, if the OP can get back to it...


  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Eastern Shore of MD, NEC 2008
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    Default Re: Breaker Securement

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Winston View Post
    I stand corrected, I guess? When I google feed-through breakers, all I get are reconditioned units for sale (and, big commercial-sized breakers). Are such things still sold? I've never seen one. You can't actually tell from the pic, can you, that they are feed-through? That is, I'm guessing that you're just assuming that? Or is there some detail that gives it away? Thanks for making me aware of those...

    Thing is, if they're feed-through, how are they supposed to be mounted to a surface? Surely not with plumbing strapping! I would expect mounting tabs or clips, or something...

    I would love a pic of the back side of those breakers, if the OP can get back to it...
    Yes I can tell just by looking at them because of the terminals. One set at top and bottom.

    Here is one you can see the design similarities:
    https://www.amazon.com/QOU260-FEED-S.../dp/B005T8XUTQ

    As stated earlier they are held by retaining clips, larger commercial ones are bolted in.

    Here is a drawing showing some attached to din rail.

    https://www.grainger.com/ec/pdf/QOU-...mp-Drawing.pdf


  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    District of Columbia
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    Default Re: Breaker Securement

    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Guridi View Post
    Yes I can tell just by looking at them because of the terminals. One set at top and bottom.
    Ah,I see what you mean now. Thanks again. I still would be disinclined to think that's original equipment with the plumbing strap...


  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Eastern Shore of MD, NEC 2008
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    Default Re: Breaker Securement

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Winston View Post
    Ah,I see what you mean now. Thanks again. I still would be disinclined to think that's original equipment with the plumbing strap...
    I would be inclined to agree.

    I merely wanted to explain the breaker type.


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