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  1. #1
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    Default Require a narrative.

    No mechanical disconnect within 5' of the AC compressor, or within 50' feet of a clear line of vision.

    1: The unit cable is NMD 3 wire cable, no worries, BUT is plugged to a GFCI outlet.
    2: The GFCI is 15 amp. GFCI meets the minimum ampacity rated for the device, BUT is scorched at both neutral slots, and is clearly not a 20 GFCI outlet which would be the maximum rating for the AC split component HVAC system.

    Any help would/will be greatly appreciated to sort out:
    1: Remote panel rating for such a component.
    Typically/usually, I encounter 30 amp to 60 amp remote breaker panel or, a remote enclosed switch, although some may agree while others not, may be referred to this electrical service components as sub panels.
    2: Can a GFCI be considered a switch. Can an electrician narrate correctly that, the GFCI device can be switched off at the test button allowing it to cross this elusive line playing the Trump card to win an uneducated and gullible audience.
    AC service.JPG

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Require a narrative.

    There is a difference between "physical" and "mechanical" disconnect in operation yet the intent is the same. You are looking at the GFCI as the mechanical disconnect as apposed to the physical plug being disconnected thus de-enerigising the equipment which is the intent.

    I am sure there will be hairs to be split over this.


  3. #3
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    Default Re: Require a narrative.

    Quote Originally Posted by ROBERT YOUNG View Post
    No mechanical disconnect within 5' of the AC compressor, or within 50' feet of a clear line of vision.

    1: The unit cable is NMD 3 wire cable, no worries, BUT is plugged to a GFCI outlet.
    2: The GFCI is 15 amp. GFCI meets the minimum ampacity rated for the device, BUT is scorched at both neutral slots, and is clearly not a 20 GFCI outlet which would be the maximum rating for the AC split component HVAC system.

    Any help would/will be greatly appreciated to sort out:
    1: Remote panel rating for such a component.
    Typically/usually, I encounter 30 amp to 60 amp remote breaker panel or, a remote enclosed switch, although some may agree while others not, may be referred to this electrical service components as sub panels.
    2: Can a GFCI be considered a switch. Can an electrician narrate correctly that, the GFCI device can be switched off at the test button allowing it to cross this elusive line playing the Trump card to win an uneducated and gullible audience.
    AC service.JPG
    120V Fujitsu mini split? Normally mini splits I see are rated as 208/230V, if this is 120V I would think the circuit ampacity would be 20+ amps. Unplug from receptacle & equipment is disconnected. Type NMD is listed for DRY locations, not damp and exposed to sunlight locations. If using a cord and cap I would think that the appliance cord should be listed & labeled for this location. As fas as I know NMD is not listed as suitable for cord & cap use as the cord cannot be properly secured and is unprotected. I think that someone took some shortcuts here and this would be a good example of less than professional execution of work.

    Alton Darty
    ATN Services, LLC
    www.arinspections.com

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Require a narrative.

    No manufacturer would permit such an installation and it does not comply with CEC - shut off not within 3 meters, no gfci required, temporary wiring, wiring not suitable for outdoor use, wire loose. The only narrative you need is to inform your client that it is not professionally installed and does not meet the electrical code in your area. Hence recommend improvements by electrician.


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Require a narrative.

    Quote Originally Posted by Garry Sorrells View Post
    There is a difference between "physical" and "mechanical" disconnect in operation yet the intent is the same. You are looking at the GFCI as the mechanical disconnect as apposed to the physical plug being disconnected thus de-enerigising the equipment which is the intent.

    I am sure there will be hairs to be split over this.
    Thats why I posted.

    I thought the post would raise some eyebrows.

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  6. #6
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    Default Re: Require a narrative.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alton Darty View Post
    120V Fujitsu mini split? Normally mini splits I see are rated as 208/230V, if this is 120V I would think the circuit ampacity would be 20+ amps. Unplug from receptacle & equipment is disconnected. Type NMD is listed for DRY locations, not damp and exposed to sunlight locations. If using a cord and cap I would think that the appliance cord should be listed & labeled for this location. As fas as I know NMD is not listed as suitable for cord & cap use as the cord cannot be properly secured and is unprotected. I think that someone took some shortcuts here and this would be a good example of less than professional execution of work.
    Yes,spit Fujitsu system.
    I called it out and the report delivered.

    Thanks, Alton.
    Lots of useful narratives. Much thanks.
    15 amp minimum, 20 map max.
    115V. 60hz 1-PH.
    Total amps. 11.1
    Compressor 10.1 - Fan .6
    I had to look twice at the rating.
    Fujitsu mini split.jpg
    The GFCI as ADS? Instant brain cramp.

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  7. #7
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    Default Re: Require a narrative.

    Too many things shown in that photo to respond using my phone - I will verify some of what I see later when back at my computer.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Require a narrative.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Too many things shown in that photo to respond using my phone - I will verify some of what I see later when back at my computer.
    Drive safe and watchout for protesters.

    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Require a narrative.

    1) You referred to that as MND - which I presume is this type (this is one brand): http://www.cerrowire.com/files/file/NMD-90.pdf

    - That says it is approved for installation in dry and damp locations - the photo shows a wet location.

    2) What are the required clearances around that unit? Especially the back (fan intake) and front (fan discharge) - I have seen some which required what amounted to (all dimensions were in mm) 26 inches on the back/intake side and 80 inches on the front/discharge side.

    3) Unless that is listed for cord and plug connection, then it is not permitted to be cord and plug connected (if the CEC is like the NEC).

    - That type of receptacle outlet cover, and that plug on the end of the NMD, are not intended for wet locations (again, presuming the CEC is like the NEC).

    4) NMD is not permitted to be installed as shown (not protected from physical damage and likely improperly supported).

    5) The bottom of that refrigerant line chase is not sealed (rodent protection) - expanding foam is not a material suitable for use as protection from rodents as they will gnaw through it (stuff in some metal screening, such as hardware cloth, then foam it, the foam will seal the chase and the metal screening will keep the rodents from gnawing through the foam).

    6) That looks to be supported in thin air, is it supported off brackets from the wall or a stand? I doubt the brackets from the wall are suitable for that.

    - With that supported up as it looks to be, is the working space around it proper?

    That should do for starters.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Require a narrative.

    Anyone having trouble posting?

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  11. #11
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    Default Re: Require a narrative.

    Quote Originally Posted by ROBERT YOUNG View Post
    Anyone having trouble posting?
    Do you mean getting 'database error?

    Yes. The easy solution when you get that after submitting your post is simply to use the 'back' on your browser, let your post reload, use 'back' again, let that page reload, then use 'refresh' to reload/refresh that page from scratch ... your post will show up as it really did go through.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Require a narrative.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    1) You referred to that as MND - which I presume is this type (this is one brand): http://www.cerrowire.com/files/file/NMD-90.pdf

    - That says it is approved for installation in dry and damp locations - the photo shows a wet location.
    NMD 90 romex 14 gauge. Not rated for below soil/underground.
    NMD 90 cable.jpg

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    2) What are the required clearances around that unit? Especially the back (fan intake) and front (fan discharge) - I have seen some which required what amounted to (all dimensions were in mm) 26 inches on the back/intake side and 80 inches on the front/discharge side.
    I will look again. Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    3) Unless that is listed for cord and plug connection, then it is not permitted to be cord and plug connected (if the CEC is like the NEC).

    - That type of receptacle outlet cover, and that plug on the end of the NMD, are not intended for wet locations (again, presuming the CEC is like the NEC).
    It might be. I did not check the plug but used them on #10 gauge cable to run equipment. I know. Still does not make it so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    4) NMD is not permitted to be installed as shown (not protected from physical damage and likely improperly supported).
    I concur.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    5) The bottom of that refrigerant line chase is not sealed (rodent protection) - expanding foam is not a material suitable for use as protection from rodents as they will gnaw through it (stuff in some metal screening, such as hardware cloth, then foam it, the foam will seal the chase and the metal screening will keep the rodents from gnawing through the foam).
    The insulation was frayed and degraded. The wall opening was not sealed as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    6) That looks to be supported in thin air, is it supported off brackets from the wall or a stand? I doubt the brackets from the wall are suitable for that.
    Not anchored.

    - With that supported up as it looks to be, is the working space around it proper?

    That should do for starters.[/QUOTE] Clearance should be OK but I will double check.

    Thanks all.

    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
    Call (514) 489-1887 or (514) 441-3732
    Our Motto; Putting information where you need it most, "In your hands.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Require a narrative.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Do you mean getting 'database error?

    Yes. The easy solution when you get that after submitting your post is simply to use the 'back' on your browser, let your post reload, use 'back' again, let that page reload, then use 'refresh' to reload/refresh that page from scratch ... your post will show up as it really did go through.
    No database errors.
    1: On my Surface Pro 2, the space bar does not move up as you type. All words are combined on one line without breaks. does not happen all the time.
    Everything is up to date.

    2: On my PC, if I step away for posting for 60 or more seconds, or take my time to to post, the post does not load.
    I will do as you recommend. I will try refreshing the page at the browser.
    Thanks.

    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
    Call (514) 489-1887 or (514) 441-3732
    Our Motto; Putting information where you need it most, "In your hands.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Require a narrative.

    Quote Originally Posted by ROBERT YOUNG View Post
    No database errors.
    1: On my Surface Pro 2, the space bar does not move up as you type. All words are combined on one line without breaks. does not happen all the time.
    Everything is up to date.
    I have that happen occasionally too - I suspect that it has something to do with the latest Chrome update as I did not used to have that ever happen.

    I found a solution (at least it works for me when that does happen): I open Notepad (which does not have any formatting) type a letter, a space, and another letter, copy and paste that to the edit box we type the post in and ... walla ... the spaces work from then on ... until it happens again some next time I open Chrome and come here.

    2: On my PC, if I step away for posting for 60 or more seconds, or take my time to to post, the post does not load.
    I will do as you recommend. I will try refreshing the page at the browser.
    Dothebacktwicefirst-lookeehere-thespacesjuststoppedfromaboveafterImoveddownbelowt heabove.

    Then I did a line enter and ... walla ... the spaces started back up on their own ... I may have just found an easier fix for the problem. Maybe not an issue with Chrome after all, maybe an issue here?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Require a narrative.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    I have that happen occasionally too - I suspect that it has something to do with the latest Chrome update as I did not used to have that ever happen.

    I found a solution (at least it works for me when that does happen): I open Notepad (which does not have any formatting) type a letter, a space, and another letter, copy and paste that to the edit box we type the post in and ... walla ... the spaces work from then on ... until it happens again some next time I open Chrome and come here.



    Dothebacktwicefirst-lookeehere-thespacesjuststoppedfromaboveafterImoveddownbelowt heabove.

    Then I did a line enter and ... walla ... the spaces started back up on their own ... I may have just found an easier fix for the problem. Maybe not an issue with Chrome after all, maybe an issue here?
    Thanks Jerry. I was lust going to ask some to look into this. Been an ongoing issue 2 or three weeks.

    I found, if you post directly behind a html QUOTE, or on the same line as a QUOTE, you can space you words. Bring your cursor back to the beginning of your post then drop your post down to an open space you prefer.
    Unused space under a quote seem to be problematic.

    How did you relate Chrome to the formating issue on the InspectionNews blog? I thought it was a formatting problem but could not put my finger on what program was causing this anomaly. I use chrome and dislike IE.

    Thanks!

    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
    Call (514) 489-1887 or (514) 441-3732
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  16. #16
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    Default Re: Require a narrative.

    Quote Originally Posted by ROBERT YOUNG View Post
    How did you relate Chrome to the formating issue on the InspectionNews blog?
    Different browsers read html and other coded languages differently, some work better for some languages than others, such as some sites are better with IE, yet other sites barely worked with IE, and Chrome worked better on most things (such as copy and paste for the online Florida Building codes0, but a recent upgrade has caused Chrome has caused it to not work on some things (such as copy no longer works on the online Florida codes, so I use Chrome, and to copy from the online Florida codes, I copy the address and paste it into the new Microsoft Edge browser, and, walla, I can copy and paste).

    Such are the trials and tribulations of internet browers and which works best for which sites.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

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