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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    Default electrical narrative required

    Require an electrical narrative for this defect.

    Exposed hot conductor, that apparently was to be used as a wall light.
    Wire nuts at terminations.
    Missing junction box. "That is covered"
    hot ciruit.JPG

    A: No switch. (I looked)
    The vendor, owner of building many years, never found. (He looked)

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    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Default Re: electrical narrative required

    Are you sure it is missing a junction box? Looks like a pancake box recessed into the stucco, which is typical - notice how round it is?

    Exposed conductors on exterior at (give location), requires a weatherproof cover at a minimum. This location requires a light (if it does, and it probably does) to illuminate the egress door and area, the lighting fixture needs to be rated for wet locations and sealed to the wall after the light fixture is installed (light fixtures are designed to be installed flush and tight to a smooth surfaced wall without requiring sealant around it, if there is any texture or roughness to that surface, then the fixture will not set tight to the surface and the fixture needs to be sealed around.

    You can see the paint outline where there was a large square fixture there when the wall was painted.

    Is that a blue room inside?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  3. #3
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    Default Re: electrical narrative required

    Only conductors.
    I will upload another pic when I get back in the office.
    Interior space. A nave.

    Requires a switch.

    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
    Call (514) 489-1887 or (514) 441-3732
    Our Motto; Putting information where you need it most, "In your hands.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Default Re: electrical narrative required

    Follow up comment:

    Ask your client if there was a light fixture there when they looked at the house and made their offer - it is quite possible that the fixture was a nice/expensive/special fixture and the sellers took it down.

    It it was there at the time the buyers looked at the house and made their offer, it needs to be replaced with the same type of fixture (unless the contract stated that the sellers were keeping that fixture).

    It is not uncommon for sellers to leave expensive things like lighting fixture up while showing the house, then take those fixtures down after the contract has been signed. Same for other items, including appliances.

    I had a case where there was a very expensive dishwasher installed when I inspected the house, my client wanted me to do a followup walk through with them just prior to closing, there was an el cheapo dishwasher installed, and it was in rough shape, like they bought it at a flea market - I looked at my original report (which I had with me) and there was a photo of the nice expensive dishwasher and its nameplate ... guess what the sellers had to do at closing ... yeppers ... give the buyers a large enough credit to cover the cost of a brand new comparable dishwasher, the sales tax, the delivery fee (and every other fee the buyers attorney could think of) and installation by the most expensive plumber the buyers attorney could reach on the phone right there at closing. I wasn't at closing, but the client told me how mad the sellers were that they got caught.

    And there were other things too, all of which went the same way as the dishwasher did - sellers ended up getting soaked on every item which was, or even possibly was, different than at the time of the original inspection ... the sellers brought it on themselves for trying to steal from the buyers, and that is exactly what they were trying to do - steal from the buyers.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ROBERT YOUNG View Post
    Requires a switch.
    Unless it operates automatically by motion and light (not needed during the day, thus the photo cell switching, not needed until there is movement there, thus the motion sensor - the motion sensor could be skipped, but why not motion sensor too) ... the requirement is switched or automatic as I recall, automatic is not defined.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  5. #5
    Join Date
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    Location
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    Default Re: electrical narrative required

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Follow up comment:

    Ask your client if there was a light fixture there when they looked at the house and made their offer - it is quite possible that the fixture was a nice/expensive/special fixture and the sellers took it down.

    It it was there at the time the buyers looked at the house and made their offer, it needs to be replaced with the same type of fixture (unless the contract stated that the sellers were keeping that fixture).

    It is not uncommon for sellers to leave expensive things like lighting fixture up while showing the house, then take those fixtures down after the contract has been signed. Same for other items, including appliances.

    I had a case where there was a very expensive dishwasher installed when I inspected the house, my client wanted me to do a followup walk through with them just prior to closing, there was an el cheapo dishwasher installed, and it was in rough shape, like they bought it at a flea market - I looked at my original report (which I had with me) and there was a photo of the nice expensive dishwasher and its nameplate ... guess what the sellers had to do at closing ... yeppers ... give the buyers a large enough credit to cover the cost of a brand new comparable dishwasher, the sales tax, the delivery fee (and every other fee the buyers attorney could think of) and installation by the most expensive plumber the buyers attorney could reach on the phone right there at closing. I wasn't at closing, but the client told me how mad the sellers were that they got caught.

    And there were other things too, all of which went the same way as the dishwasher did - sellers ended up getting soaked on every item which was, or even possibly was, different than at the time of the original inspection ... the sellers brought it on themselves for trying to steal from the buyers, and that is exactly what they were trying to do - steal from the buyers.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Unless it operates automatically by motion and light (not needed during the day, thus the photo cell switching, not needed until there is movement there, thus the motion sensor - the motion sensor could be skipped, but why not motion sensor too) ... the requirement is switched or automatic as I recall, automatic is not defined.
    Morning Jerry.
    Much hoping you or Bob would reply.

    Circa 1922 Church.
    Commercial Municipal designation.
    I suspect that wiring was for an (EXIT) sign.
    Hydro Quebec, our utility provider, had been there to survey and seal the equipment (Lockouts) at one time. I suspect recently. Within 24 months.

    I can not make heads or tails after the service equipment.
    200 amp Square D man panel appears to service the church. No big deal. I do not see a thick gauge cable to feed the remote panel in the nave.
    (2) obsolete/vintage remote switches.
    (1) for the kitchen. Taylor.
    (1) for the passage. Amalgamated.

    The clearance for the remote tells you whom had a hand in updating the wiring.
    remote.JPG


    The nave: Square D. 125 amp remote panel.
    Sorry Bob H. That's how sub/remote panels are explained in my report, although sub panel might be appropriate in this case. Water in the boiler room, next to the electrical service equipment room below grade, but I could not locate the torpedo room or the escape hatch.

    Hypothesis: Amatuer Bootleg wiring for a EXIT light. (No switch required)

    a. I followed a circuit back from the remote panel.
    Using my voltage analyser I measured voltage drop as I measure downstream. I did not use my Sperry circuit tracer.

    2.2% Vd closest the equipment box, next outlet downstream, 2.3% Vd, 2.5 Vd, etc...
    Not many outlet.
    4 or 6 outlets, 6 or 8 wall sconces.
    Ceilings lighting was operational NG natural gas lamps.

    Note: The outlet/receptacle before bootlegged cable had no ground. I did not dismantle the outlet but suspect that cable protruding from the wall above the doorway was spliced off that circuit conductor to feed that NM cable/conductors in that image.

    Tested the hot, neutral and ground with my VoltAlert 90 to 1000 VAC non contact Voltage Detector. Hot was hot, only.

    Observation: Unidentified Electrical circuit.
    a. Protruding NM cable. Hot circuit. b. Missing box. c. Can not locate switch.
    Location: First level: Center Front Wall above doorway.

    Recommend: a. A licensed electrician evalaute/trace the circuit to the breaker.
    b. Insure all connections for/in that circuit meet CEC code norms.

    Limitations: Wall and ceiling coverings.

    Thoughts?

    Last edited by ROBERT YOUNG; 02-02-2017 at 03:46 AM. Reason: adding
    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
    Call (514) 489-1887 or (514) 441-3732
    Our Motto; Putting information where you need it most, "In your hands.

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