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  1. #1
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    Mar 2012
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    Cleveland, Ohio
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    Default POS wires on multi unit building - reach issue?

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    These service wires were anchored at the front right corner of the property, and ran along the side and entire back of 5 units, just under the second floor bedroom windows as shown.
    Townhouse/condos built in Ohio in 1948. I was wondering if screwing the bottom of the double hung window in place would be a proper suggestion? Is this in any way allowable? I am really scratching my head on why this was ever done this way.

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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
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    Default Re: POS wires on multi unit building - reach issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by chris viscomi View Post
    I was wondering if screwing the bottom of the double hung window in place would be a proper suggestion?
    ABSOLUTELY NOT!

    What if those windows provide EERO egress?

    The windows likely also provide the required natural ventilation.

    You may well be recommending a greater death trap than exists now.

    Is this in any way allowable?
    No.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  3. #3
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    Mar 2012
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    Cleveland, Ohio
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    Default Re: POS wires on multi unit building - reach issue?

    Jerry,

    Musta had my head up my a55, your right. I just couldn't understand how the city allowed this. The main service equipment and mast was new, but I guess that does not mean it was inspected recently.

    How could this have been like this all these years? I just cannot comprehend it.

    I called it out as "within reach" and did not list suggestions but I know I am going to get a call from the Selling and Buying Agent asking if I am crazy.

    So the "fix" would require conduit around the side and back of building?


  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Chicago IL
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    1,996

    Default Re: POS wires on multi unit building - reach issue?

    I provide a lot of recommendations for remediation to my clients. However, on a few items I will not provide a remediation recommendation.
    This is one of them.
    Service within reach obviously non-compliant. Too many options for compliance outside the scope of an HI for us to recommend what to do.

    www.aic-chicago.com
    773/844-4AIC
    "The Code is not a ceiling to reach but a floor to work up from"

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Cleveland, Ohio
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    Default Re: POS wires on multi unit building - reach issue?

    Marcus,

    I agree. I have been forced to defend my position on a few occasions, and I can smell it coming here. I have also had Buyer Agents, Sellers Agents, City Inspectors and Utility Service people all question a flagged safety issue at one point or another on something which has "been that way" a long time (like that is an automatic grandfather in itself!).

    In this case, two of the units were just recently sold left and right side of this one. No Inspector flagged this condition, no Appraiser or City person on a POS inspection brought it up. In these cases I get forced to defend, or at least to explain my position further to the Buyer's Agent (so at least she does not think I am crazy- and never use me on a deal again). I need to protect my future business.

    In this case, because it also involves me alerting the Condo Homeowner's Association that they
    (multiple units) all have an issue, as well as defending myself against the Seller's Electrician, who just did the rewire (probably without a permit) and who is telling the Seller and his Agent that I am a nutball.

    Been doing this long enough to know to educate myself slightly "beyond borders" in these types of cases so I can rebut the naysayers. That is why I usually come to Jerry and this forum when I have a need to know more and/or why. Being able to do just that, armed with info gained here, has helped me defend my position and my business.


  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Default Re: POS wires on multi unit building - reach issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by chris viscomi View Post
    I agree. I have been forced to defend my position on a few occasions, and I can smell it coming here. I have also had Buyer Agents, Sellers Agents, City Inspectors and Utility Service people all question a flagged safety issue at one point or another on something which has "been that way" a long time (like that is an automatic grandfather in itself!).

    In this case, two of the units were just recently sold left and right side of this one. No Inspector flagged this condition, no Appraiser or City person on a POS inspection brought it up. In these cases I get forced to defend, or at least to explain my position further to the Buyer's Agent (so at least she does not think I am crazy- and never use me on a deal again). I need to protect my future business.
    Chris,

    Sometimes, in fact, most times, the choice of words we use is important, such as above - your "explain" the reasons why. It is then up to the others to "defend" their position that, just because no one as died ... YET ... that it means that it is "safe" (and never answer a "is it safe" question ... nothing is ever "safe" ... and everything can be made "safer" ... YOU are pointing out that it is "not safe" ... for them to dispute you, THEY are saying that it is "safe" (remember what I just said about nothing is ever "safe").

    In this case, because it also involves me alerting the Condo Homeowner's Association that they (multiple units) all have an issue, as well as defending myself against the Seller's Electrician, who just did the rewire (probably without a permit) and who is telling the Seller and his Agent that I am a nutball.
    ... explaining ...

    You ask the electrician to go up there with you, pour water (it does rain there, I presume) on the conductors/cable, grab something which is well grounded, wet your hand (if it has been raining, a person's hand may be wet), okay, now Mr. Smart Aleck Electrician, reach out and grab those wires and see if you can swing from them as you are escaping a fire inside ...

    ... my money will be placed on that electrician NOT doing that.

    Been doing this long enough to know to educate myself slightly "beyond borders" in these types of cases so I can rebut the naysayers. That is why I usually come to Jerry and this forum when I have a need to know more and/or why. Being able to do just that, armed with info gained here, has helped me defend my position and my business.
    ... explain ... one or more of the reasons it is "not safe" (also avoid 'it is not safe because ... ' as there are likely numerous reasons that something is not safe and you may not think of all of the reasons, so instead say 'some of the reasons it is not safe are ... ' and you are only presenting "some" of the reasons, but leaving it open that there are likely other reasons too.

    Just because some unsafe condition has not YET killed anyone, my response is to this affect: 'Time is not a safety feature, in fact, time is even running out and that may cause blah, blah, blah sooner rather than later.'

    Not only is "time" not a safety feature, "time" works against most things as they deteriorate over "time".

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

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