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  1. #1
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    Default Bonding question

    Direct Bonding of Standard (Yellow) CSST.
    In the image below, the CSST are not bonded. In my experience, this Is usually the case.

    In the 2009, and later editions, of the National Fuel Gas Code, the International Fuel Gas Code and the Uniform Plumbing Code bonding is required.
    Question, If the piping downstream is bonded, does the CSST require bonding as well?
    Thanks in advance.


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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Bonding question

    The CSST itself is bonded by metal-to-metal contact.

    No bonding clamp is even allowed to be on the CSST itself (the clamp would crush the CSST when tightened).

    Additionally, the bond connection is supposed to be 'at the point of entrance' of the building and after the meter - which is difficult when the meter is inside ... where it should not be (with a few exceptions, none of which apply to residential installations as I recall).

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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    Default Re: Bonding question

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    The CSST itself is bonded by metal-to-metal contact.
    The 2009 edition of NFPA 54, National Fuel Gas Code, includes new requirements for bonding CSST gas piping systems to the grounding conductor of the building's electrical system, to reduce the possibility of damage by lightning strikes by reducing the electrical potential between metallic objects and building systems, including gas distribution.
    "7.13.3 Prohibited Use. Gas piping shall not be used as a grounding conductor or electrode. This does not preclude the bonding of metallic piping to a grounding system."

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    No bonding clamp is even allowed to be on the CSST itself (the clamp would crush the CSST when tightened).
    I concur.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Additionally, the bond connection is supposed to be 'at the point of entrance' of the building and after the meter - which is difficult when the meter is inside ... where it should not be (with a few exceptions, none of which apply to residential installations as I recall).
    Many times inside residential units in my neck of the woods.
    Bonding a CSST gas distribution system requires cooperation between the installer of the system, NFPA 54

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  4. #4
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    Default Re: Bonding question

    I found a well written article about bonding CSST from November of 2015, but I think I need the author's permission to post it here. It's titled Inspector's Field Comments Newsletter

    Jerry?

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    Default Re: Bonding question

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar Alquist View Post
    I found a well written article about bonding CSST from November of 2015, but I think I need the author's permission to post it here. It's titled Inspector's Field Comments Newsletter

    Jerry?
    Who, me?

    Those are for all to read and refer to, no problem posting it here.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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    Default Re: Bonding question

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    The CSST itself is bonded by metal-to-metal contact.
    Quote Originally Posted by ROBERT YOUNG View Post
    The 2009 edition of NFPA 54, National Fuel Gas Code, includes new requirements for bonding CSST gas piping systems to the grounding conductor of the building's electrical system, to reduce the possibility of damage by lightning strikes by reducing the electrical potential between metallic objects and building systems, including gas distribution.
    "7.13.3 Prohibited Use. Gas piping shall not be used as a grounding conductor or electrode. This does not preclude the bonding of metallic piping to a grounding system."
    And, when the bond jumper is clamped to a black iron metal pipe, to which the CSST is connected, is not the CSST itself bonded to that black iron metal pipe by metal-to-metal contact?

    I used "black iron metal pipe" as an example, it could be any approved rigid metallic gas piping, galvanized, etc., not just "black iron metal pipe".

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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    Default Re: Bonding question

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    And, when the bond jumper is clamped to a black iron metal pipe, to which the CSST is connected, is not the CSST itself bonded to that black iron metal pipe by metal-to-metal contact?
    There are several pipe fittings. In a sense a manifold. All fittings doped.
    Could plumbers dope affect conductivity?
    If so, the position of the bond jumper clamp is important.
    Am I making sense?


    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    I used "black iron metal pipe" as an example, it could be any approved rigid metallic gas piping, galvanized, etc., not just "black iron metal pipe".
    I will read upon the subject. Direct Bonding of Standard (Yellow) CSST.

    Thank you both.

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    Default Re: Bonding question

    Quote Originally Posted by ROBERT YOUNG View Post
    There are several pipe fittings. In a sense a manifold. All fittings doped.
    Could plumbers dope affect conductivity?
    If so, the position of the bond jumper clamp is important.
    Am I making sense?
    Doesn't affect it at all as the pipe dope simply fills any voids in the threads as the thread meet and make contact with each other - doesn't take much contact for the electrical continuity of the bond to take place.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Bonding question

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Who, me?
    Those are for all to read and refer to, no problem posting it here.
    Quote Originally Posted by ROBERT YOUNG View Post
    There are several pipe fittings. In a sense a manifold. All fittings doped.
    Could plumbers dope affect conductivity?
    If so, the position of the bond jumper clamp is important.
    Am I making sense?
    I will read upon the subject. Direct Bonding of Standard (Yellow) CSST.
    Thank you both.
    RY,

    I think at some point we have to assume conductivity of the piping material. Remember, even with an old-fashioned iron pipe gas supply system there is going to be pipe dope or teflon tape at fittings. The problem would be with some kind of fitting intended to prevent conductivity (like a dielectric union). Gas meters have one of these where the meter connects to the service (at least, around here they do).

    One of the problems that I had early on with the bonding of CSST is that one of the diagrams on some website kind of looked like it was a specific CSST bonding fitting rather than a standard bonding clamp attached to a standard CSST fitting. When I finally looked closer, it became clear.
    In addition to Jerry's document, I am also including a couple of additional CSST bonding documents that I downloaded from some manufacturers. I believe there is also a CSST bonding web page as well that was put together by the manufacturers. Some of the diagrams are clearly the same across websites.

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    Default Re: Bonding question

    Thanks.

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  11. #11
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    Default Re: Bonding question

    Also,

    I would really like some clarification on this one. Bonding of gas piping (other than CSST).

    I thought it had to be bonded like the water, but the NEC says the EGC of the appliance likely to energize the piping will suffice.

    Was bonding of the hard gas piping ever required?

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    Default Re: Bonding question

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar Alquist View Post
    Also,

    I would really like some clarification on this one. Bonding of gas piping (other than CSST).

    I thought it had to be bonded like the water, but the NEC says the EGC of the appliance likely to energize the piping will suffice.

    Was bonding of the hard gas piping ever required?
    It has technically been required as long as I can remember but it was allowed that the ECG of attached equipment to bond it. I personally think it was more of an oversight than a thought out process but I have never seen or heard of a required dedicated bonding clamp and and conductor even on systems with out attached electric powered (and grounded) appliances.
    There might be some archived discussions here, it has come up before.

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Plano, Texas

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Bonding question

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall View Post
    It has technically been required as long as I can remember but it was allowed that the ECG of attached equipment to bond it. I personally think it was more of an oversight than a thought out process but I have never seen or heard of a required dedicated bonding clamp and and conductor even on systems with out attached electric powered (and grounded) appliances.
    There might be some archived discussions here, it has come up before.

    Hi Jim,

    Thanks for the response. In my area, I see a lot of bonded gas piping, particularly in newer construction at the gas meter. Probably those from the last 10 years or so, even when I do not find any CSST in the building. My guess is that the electrical contractor did not know if CSST is going to be used and decided to just go ahead and bond the gas. I also see it in older/existing homes when an older panel has been replaced, this time typically at the gas-fired water heater. A #6 wire that connects the hot, cold and gas. Once again, no CSST. I suspect the electrical contractor went ahead and bonded concurrently with the panel replacement.

    My next stop is the building department to ask. If I run into an electrical contractor, I will also ask.

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  14. #14
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    Default Re: Bonding question

    Thanks, Jim. Much appreciated.

    The idea, bonding gas line/pipes, is not without merit. If the gas line becomes energized, it just stays energized until someone, or something, touches it.

    On Mike Holt's Forum there is a thread/discussion related to the NEC 250.104 (B) Other Metal Piping (GAS)
    It boils down to, while some may agree, others may not.

    Unfortunately for me, being a Canadian home inspector interested in improving my knowledge through well developed internet social sites like Inspectionnews, the Canadian equivalent, the CEC, does not command that great and audience to create such a platform for inquisitive minds like mine.
    Too bad.
    So, sad.

    My position stands, metal gas piping that is likely to become energized should be bonded.

    1927 concrete/masonry construction.
    For the most part. Original Plaster and lath.
    NG and electric energy.
    Duplex condo conversion.

    Some renovations. Typical bathroom and kitchen.
    Lower units basement has been made into a habitable space.
    Lucky for them the foundation is poured concrete and not rubble stone, large graystone/ashlar's, that did not make the grade for envelopes or stones for over seas ship ballast.
    I inspected the upper condo.

    The image below clearly indicates updated wiring, later NMD, with low voltage cables in contact with the NG cast iron pipe. CSST is fitted at the end.
    Look at NG pipe end support. Where the CSST continues.
    A extension cord, three wire, has been attached to the steel strapping. Red flag for me.
    As well, none of the NG cast iron piping has orange or yellow tape every 5 or 6', depending your jurisdiction, indicating NG.
    The retrofits look amature.


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