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  1. #1
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    Dec 2008
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    Erwin, TN
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    Default Secondary Panel Issue

    Does anyone see what I see with this Secondary distribution panel ? The neutral bus bar is bonded to enclosure (wrong ?) They have taken the screw out off the bonding strap on the neutral bus bar (top right) to keep from bonding the neutral and grounds together. Does anyone see anything else ?

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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Santa Rosa, CA
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    Default Re: Secondary Panel Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Morris View Post
    Does anyone see what I see with this Secondary distribution panel ? The neutral bus bar is bonded to enclosure (wrong ?) They have taken the screw out off the bonding strap on the neutral bus bar (top right) to keep from bonding the neutral and grounds together. Does anyone see anything else ?
    Sam,

    I believe the bonding strap should have been removed as well. I realize the screw has been removed, but I would guess the strap touches the neutral terminal block.

    Yes, you are correct, if this is not the service equipment, then the neutral should not be bonded to the enclosure.

    Off the top of my head, I don't see anything else, but I do have a headache and could well be missing something.

    "Bring out yer dead"
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  3. #3
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    Dec 2008
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    280

    Default Re: Secondary Panel Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar Alquist View Post
    Sam,

    I believe the bonding strap should have been removed as well. I realize the screw has been removed, but I would guess the strap touches the neutral terminal block.

    Yes, you are correct, if this is not the service equipment, then the neutral should not be bonded to the enclosure.

    Off the top of my head, I don't see anything else, but I do have a headache and could well be missing something.
    Yes its an AKA Sub-Panel, Thanks for your time


  4. #4
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    Ormond Beach, Florida
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    Default Re: Secondary Panel Issue

    Top right of first photo: optical illusion because of angle, or are those two conductors multiple tapped into one terminal?

    That panel may be listed for use as "Service Equipment Use Only" as that left ground terminal bar is tied to, and part of, the right neutral terminal bar, or may be "Suitable For Use as Service Equipment" with additional instructions that the two terminal bars are for neutral conductors only when not used as service equipment panel, and requires optional accessory grounding terminal bar kit for equipment ground conductors.

    Other photos:

    That conduit coming up out of the ground needs to sealed, looks to be PVC (If so, needs to be Sch 80, not Sch 40).

    Where did that screw you are holding come out of, and did you take it out?

    Jerry Peck
    Construction Litigation Consultant ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
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    Erwin, TN
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    Default Re: Secondary Panel Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Top right of first photo: optical illusion because of angle, or are those two conductors multiple tapped into one terminal?

    That panel may be listed for use as "Service Equipment Use Only" as that left ground terminal bar is tied to, and part of, the right neutral terminal bar, or may be "Suitable For Use as Service Equipment" with additional instructions that the two terminal bars are for neutral conductors only when not used as service equipment panel, and requires optional accessory grounding terminal bar kit for equipment ground conductors.
    DSCN7753.JPG
    Other photos:

    That conduit coming up out of the ground needs to sealed, looks to be PVC (If so, needs to be Sch 80, not Sch 40).

    Where did that screw you are holding come out of, and did you take it out?
    No double taps, its a tapcon screw that came out of the back, I think the other neutral on the bus bar should have a approved attachment (lug) and not under a small bus bar screw (you can see it better on the 2nd picture)


  6. #6
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    Mar 2007
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    Default Re: Secondary Panel Issue

    Both ground conductors on the left side need to be removed from there. These need to attach to the enclosure.

    That left terminal bar connects to the bar which runs behind everything and connects to the right side.

    What does that bare aluminum ground go to?

    Jerry Peck
    Construction Litigation Consultant ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  7. #7
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    Dec 2008
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    Erwin, TN
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    Default Re: Secondary Panel Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Both ground conductors on the left side need to be removed from there. These need to attach to the enclosure.

    That left terminal bar connects to the bar which runs behind everything and connects to the right side.

    What does that bare aluminum ground go to?
    Aluminum wire (top left) is the Service wire ground, the other one is the ground going to another secondary panel


  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Ormond Beach, Florida
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    Default Re: Secondary Panel Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Morris View Post
    Aluminum wire (top left) is the Service wire ground, the other one is the ground going to another secondary panel
    That "Service wire ground" should be at the "service equipment", not at this "not service equipment" panel.

    This panel (presuming that it is in the same building) is grounded through the ground wire run with the feeder conductors.

    Jerry Peck
    Construction Litigation Consultant ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Colorado Front Range
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    653

    Default Re: Secondary Panel Issue

    The pictures of the top part of the panel miss detail on the right neutral buss bar

    I can't see how the feeder enters the panel. If it is in the same conduit as the individual wires the conduit is too full. Please tell me that wire/cable stapled to the house to the right of the panel isn't the feeder to the panel.

    The screw you are holding didn't come out of the panel, at least as it came from the factory.

    The large neutral lug on top of the right neutral buss appears to be being used to fasten the jumper strap that electrically ties the left and right neutral buss bars together. I'm not sure that is a factory setup as the lug generally has a tab that keeps it from spinning when mounted on the buss bar and the strap would be in the way I think.

    The bonding jumper about 2/3 of the way down on the right side needs to be removed.

    A ground buss bar needs to be installed (the panel is drilled to accept one) and the grounds moved to it.

    Occam's eraser: The philosophical principle that even the simplest solution is bound to have something wrong with it.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    MONTREAL QUEBEC-CANADA
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    2,008

    Default Re: Secondary Panel Issue

    Bonding bridge connection to the panel.
    double lug resized.JPG

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