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Thread: dan orourke

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    Default dan orourke

    ...........

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    Last edited by dan orourke; 01-02-2008 at 08:27 AM.
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    Default Re: dan orourke

    Only one I know of would be common sense and the manufacturer's instructions.
    Jim

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    Default Re: dan orourke

    If I turn your photo partially sideway, that fluorescent fixture sure looks like it is running over the tub space, and THAT is not allowed.

    Being too close to the heater? If it is, it will melt the plastic, may even over heat the ballast in that fixture, however, being as the heater will typically only be used on cold days, the attic above the light is probably also cold, negating much of the overheating from the heater.

    BUT ... if that light goes in over the tub, not allowed and not safe.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: dan orourke

    I agree, it does not look like a waterproof fixture to me.

    If the heater was going to be a problem, then most likely you would have seen some indication. Unless it was installed this morning before your inspection. Doubtful.


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    Default Re: dan orourke

    Looks like its over the tub to me.

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    Default Re: dan orourke

    ............

    Last edited by dan orourke; 01-02-2008 at 08:28 AM.

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    Default Re: dan orourke

    Quote Originally Posted by dan orourke View Post
    thanks! Yes, fixture over the tub....fixture over the tub is a problem because it is not water proof fixture, correct? Otherwise it would be okay as it is not a dangling, pendelium light fixture.
    From the NEC.
    - 410.4 Luminaires (Fixtures) in Specific Locations.
    - - (D) Bathtub and Shower Areas. No parts of cord-connected luminaires (fixtures), hanging luminaires (fixtures), lighting track, pendants, or ceiling-suspended (paddle) fans shall be located within a zone measured 900 mm (3 ft) horizontally and 2.5 m (8 ft) vertically from the top of the bathtub rim or shower stall threshold. This zone is all encompassing and includes the zone directly over the tub or shower stall.

    Recessed fixtures are recommend as they are less apt to be hit and broken, but, yet, a surface mounted fixture which is approved for installation in a wet location would be acceptable. That would be a fixture which is both gasketed to the surface and where the globe/glass is gasketed to the fixture.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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    Default Re: dan orourke

    Illustration of Jerry's code.

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    Default Re: dan orourke

    Saw this last week and was primarily concerned about the proximity of the plastic and fabric shower curtains to the electric wall heater. But now I'm wondering: is there any issue with the location of the heater in relation to the tub?

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    Thumbs down Re: dan orourke

    It is surface a mounted light fixture, which is acceptable above and with-in the zone. It does not say that it has to be water tight. Where is spell check?


  11. #11
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    Default Re: dan orourke

    Tony,

    If it is used in a wet locating like the shower/tub, it has to be listed for that use.

    Spell check is in the right top corner of the box I'm typing in. See the "ABC" with the check mark under it above the smilies? Click on it and you will most likely have to download the Ispell for free and install.


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    Post Re: dan orourke

    Never seen one of those ceiling toasters before.
    The ones I see are the recessed wall mounts in old homes. I don't think safety was a factor back in the day. Well very vague anyway.

    Mike Schulz License 393
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    Default Re: dan orourke

    Oh,
    Tony update your profile so it will have where you are located in your post

    Mike Schulz License 393
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    Default Re: dan orourke

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Mount View Post
    It is surface a mounted light fixture, which is acceptable above and with-in the zone. It does not say that it has to be water tight.
    Very much incorrect.

    Here is why ... from the NEC.
    - 410.4 Luminaires (Fixtures) in Specific Locations.
    - - (A) Wet and Damp Locations. Luminaires (fixtures) installed in wet or damp locations shall be installed so that water cannot enter or accumulate in wiring compartments, lampholders, or other electrical parts. All luminaires (fixtures) installed in wet locations shall be marked, “Suitable for Wet Locations.” All luminaires (fixtures) installed in damp locations shall be marked, “Suitable for Wet Locations” or “Suitable for Damp Locations.”
    - - (D) Bathtub and Shower Areas. No parts of cord-connected luminaires (fixtures), hanging luminaires (fixtures), lighting track, pendants, or ceiling-suspended (paddle) fans shall be located within a zone measured 900 mm (3 ft) horizontally and 2.5 m (8 ft) vertically from the top of the bathtub rim or shower stall threshold. This zone is all encompassing and includes the zone directly over the tub or shower stall.

    FIRST, if in a wet location, and a shower *IS* a "wet location", the light must meet 410.4(A), SECONDLY, if in a bathtub or shower area, it must ALSO meet 410.4(D).

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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    Default Re: dan orourke

    Michael,

    From the NEC.
    - ARTICLE 424 Fixed Electric Space-Heating Equipment
    - - 424.13 Spacing from Combustible Materials.
    - - - Fixed electric space-heating equipment shall be installed to provide the required spacing between the equipment and adjacent combustible material, unless it has been found to be acceptable where installed in direct contact with combustible material.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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    Default Re: dan orourke

    Sorry, I believe the picture is a ceiling over a tub shower, and the area is not concidered a wet location. It may be a gray area, and the posts of Tim and Jerry is just their opinion. I do not like the new format, do I have to down load something to carry my old information over to the new board, and I don't have spell check anywhere on this page that I'm now writeing on.


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    Question Re: dan orourke

    Jerry, you must not be posting all the code, just the part that supports your opinion in this case. David Banks post showes clearly that surface mounted luminaire is acceptable above and within the zone. So what is the truth?


  18. #18
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    Default Re: dan orourke

    Tony,

    You need to add your info/profile by going to "User CP" at the top left of the the board. Click on it and then click on "Edit Profile" then type in your info and save at the bottom.

    Do you have all of the smilies faces at the very right of the typing area? Above those you should see an ABC with check mark under it. Click on it and then you will most likely have to download and install Ispell for free.

    If you don't see any of this, then you need to contact Brian.

    HTH


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    Default Re: dan orourke

    Unless that light is suited for wet locations and marked as such and that ceiling is higher than 8' from the rim of the tub, it's not right. I doubt that ceiling is high enough.

    Mike Schulz License 393
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    Default Re: dan orourke

    Sorry Mike just like Jerry, if you can't show me it by a code, it is just your opinion. The only water area in a house is an enclosed shower stall all other areas are outside in most cases.


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    Lightbulb Re: dan orourke

    Here is why ... from the NEC.
    - 410.4 Luminaires (Fixtures) in Specific Locations.
    - - (A) Wet and Damp Locations. Luminaires (fixtures) installed in wet or damp locations shall be installed so that water cannot enter or accumulate in wiring compartments, lampholders, or other electrical parts. All luminaires (fixtures) installed in wet locations shall be marked, “Suitable for Wet Locations.” All luminaires (fixtures) installed in damp locations shall be marked, “Suitable for Wet Locations” or “Suitable for Damp Locations.”

    Wet and Damp Locations, This should answer your question.

    Mike Schulz License 393
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    Default Re: dan orourke

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Mount View Post
    Sorry, I believe the picture is a ceiling over a tub shower, and the area is not concidered a wet location. It may be a gray area, and the posts of Tim and Jerry is just their opinion. I do not like the new format, do I have to down load something to carry my old information over to the new board, and I don't have spell check anywhere on this page that I'm now writeing on.
    Tony,

    There is not "gray" about it.

    That light is completely wrong.

    I have posted all of the applicable codes, apparently you do not find what you like, so you are ignoring it.

    One code section I posted states that, in a wet area (and that is a wet area) the light must be listed for use in a wet area.

    The other code section I posted states what type (hanging, pendent, ceiling fan, etc.) is and is not allowed.

    You must take 1 + 1 to get 2.

    If you try to ignore one because you do not like it, you will never get to first base, in which case you should not be uttering the word "code" anyway.

    Tony, your past history of being minimalist is showing through again, I thought you were outgrowing that.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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    Default Re: dan orourke

    Tony
    A surface mounted fixture is acceptable.
    If it is a wet or damp location then it must also be listed for use in wet / damp locations, I don't think it is listed for that use.
    Is the area above a tub/ shower considered a wet/ damp location?
    Yes, "Green board" ( water resistant sheetrock), and not regular sheetrock MUST be used in the tub/ shower area, because the tub/shower is considered a wet/damp area.

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

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    Default Re: dan orourke

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Cantrell View Post
    Yes, "Green board" ( water resistant sheetrock), and not regular sheetrock MUST be used in the tub/ shower area, because the tub/shower is considered a wet/damp area.
    Actually, 'green board' is not even approved for that use, that use is 'too wet' for 'green board'.

    Nope, I'm not kidding.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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    www.AskCodeMan.com

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    Default Re: dan orourke

    Jerry
    Good call.
    Of course you understand I was comparing materials, only to show that the shower area is a wet area.
    It's not that I did'nt know it, I'm not good at writing what I think.
    Thank you for your time and efforts, helping me and everyone else on this board.

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

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