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  1. #1
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    Default June recall: Schneider Sq D QO Plug-on Neutral panelboards

    https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2022/Sc...d-Fire-Hazards

    They're handling this very well, but there are things HIs need to know about. Apparently no incidents of harm have been reported. Still, in certain parts of the production run, a screw may be loose. The company is taking the responsibility to contact all known purchasers and to themselves arrange for inspection, and if necessary, repair. (This beats the @#$%^ off what I've seen other companies do.)

    Could any purchases have fallen in a crack and been overlooked? Sure;there could be letters that went out from Schneider and got DeJoyed.
    There could be HOs who bought the panels and installed them themselves, then moved out and put the property in the hands of a realtor. Schneider's letter gets to them at their new address, and they they discard it as nothing to do with them.
    In an extreme case, there could be contractors who bought these, installed these, and then went out of business.
    There will be others who just said, "we got paid, we're done there. We don't know which properties got the recalled panels, but it will cost us time to send someone out to pull the cover and check."

    There are a host of possibilities that make it important for HIs to look inside QO Plug-on Neutral panelboards and check the number against those listed in the recall notice, once the cover's OPEN--don't have to take it off. If the little green Schneider "inspected/corrected" stickers have been pasted on, you know it's been handled. Otherwise, I know this is square within my responsibility to mention.

    If in doubt, contact Schneider Electric Technical toll-free at 888-778-2733 from 8 a.m. through 8 p.m. ET Monday through Friday, online at www.se.com/us/qoloadcenter-safetyrecallnotice Unsurprisingly, their phones are still going crazy. It took them a week to get back to me.

    Similar Threads:
    Last edited by david shapiro; 07-07-2022 at 11:51 AM.
    Inspection Referral

  2. #2
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    Default Re: June recall: Schneider Sq D QO Plug-on Neutral panelboards

    If the two little green Schneider "inspected/corrected" stickers have been pasted on, you know it's been handled. Otherwise, you know this is square within your responsibility to mention.


    Mention it if you want or feel the need, but certainly not an HI's job to identify a recalled "anything" in the home. For all we know, the posted defect list changed or was updated or whatever, or the correction technician/department didn't put the "green stickers" on the panel (or the HO or someone else peeled them off...)

    Frankly, they should put the data plate in a place that's accessible to anyone, not buried inside where no one can quickly check if they have one of the "chance of death" panels installed in their home.


  3. #3
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    Default Re: June recall: Schneider Sq D QO Plug-on Neutral panelboards

    Dom, I certainly am not trained on your Standard Of Practice. I did believe that ASHI, anyway, expected HIs to look into panelboards unless doing so would be hazardous.

    As a strictly electrical consultant, I personally would consider myself derelict in my duty if I were asked to look at a panelboard and failed to mention any defects that were readily observable--from Code violations, to brands i consider unsafe, to recalls. (I'm not saying that I don't miss problems, obviously.)

    As for where manufacturers should put the info, I don't see a point in arguing with should have-would have-could have. This may in fact be designated in UL489; I haven't looked, but anyone can. And anyone can propose revisions to any UL standard.

    As to the possibility that someone peeled off the stickers, nah, not the one that goes inside. Maybe that's the point of the two stickers they advise inspectors to look for. Or that the Schneider-authorized inspection/repair person skipped that step? Implausible, though every one of us screws up sometimes; but easy to check by contacting Schneider.

    Like anything I post, the information I offered is there for you to take or leave.


  4. #4
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    Default Re: June recall: Schneider Sq D QO Plug-on Neutral panelboards

    Quote Originally Posted by david shapiro View Post
    expected HIs to look into panelboards unless doing so would be hazardous.
    Thank you, David, but that isn't my point. Perhaps I wasn't completely clear, that's on me.

    I look at (and inside) nearly every panelboard I can safely access, plenty of defects to be found. But I do not cross reference the panelboard model code with the date of manufacture or S/N to determine if that specific unit is part of a recall. Hell, I can't even safely move the conductors aside to read the obscure data plate/label in many panels.

    Sure. I'll mention the recent Square D recall on a home where it's likely present, just like I mention the long-ago Square D "blue AFCI button" issue from 15+ years ago, but I stop short of checking anything for recalls.

    FWIW, most if not all HI SOP's exclude recalls from general inspection requirements. Yes, you can do it, but not required, etc. etc.


  5. #5
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    Default Re: June recall: Schneider Sq D QO Plug-on Neutral panelboards

    Dom, if you mention it, you've certainly done what's reasonable. I quite agree that in many panelboards it is a royal @#$% to get to where you can read any label, once enough wires have accumulated. Usually this is less common in a recently-installed panelboard, but no guarantees.

    Many HIs take photos of markings, and include them in their reports. This would enable the buyer or HO that hired you to look it up themselves, or if a followup by an electrician is warranted, the prince of the trades (as my dad labeled us) can look it up. I've done this sort of simple task* for inquirers as a first step without going on-site.

    *Such as telling a purchaser that the image they'd sent me, which had been identified by their home inspector as demonstrating that they had aluminum branch circuit wiring and that their disposal circuit lacked a ground, actually showed it was wired in ACHH, complete with bonding strip. Errp.


  6. #6
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    Default Re: June recall: Schneider Sq D QO Plug-on Neutral panelboards

    David,

    I, too, appreciate you posting this. However, as with Dom, I do not check for recalls. There are so many products/appliances/components out there that have been recalled that it would be impractical to run recall checks on all of them.

    On the other hand, since I do not see a lot of QO around here (mostly homeline in residences), I might actually be able to remember to mention the possibility of a recall in a report.

    Department of Redundancy Department
    http://www.FullCircleInspect.com/

  7. #7
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    Default Re: June recall: Schneider Sq D QO Plug-on Neutral panelboards

    Quote Originally Posted by david shapiro View Post
    I quite agree that in many panelboards it is a royal @#$% to get to where you can read any label, once enough wires have accumulated. Usually this is less common in a recently-installed panelboard, but no guarantees.
    One of my pet peeves are those labels, even when on UL STP 67, which covered panelboards - but where go the label go in a panel and be properly accessible after installation? All the spaces are already taken for: wire fill; wire bending; etc.

    The new Plug-On-Neutral (PON) panels help some ... if PON breakers are used (those PON panels came about after I retired and left UL STP 67).

    Make the panels larger with space reserved only for the label? Not a chance.

    Put the labels on the doors? Would only work if a door could only fit that one series panel wherr all the label were the same - that would be a manufacturing nightmare.

    Jerry Peck
    Construction Litigation Consultant - Retired
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  8. #8
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    Default Re: June recall: Schneider Sq D QO Plug-on Neutral panelboards

    Jerry, in preface I'll note that (a) I studied Talmud and (b) I studied briefly at Manhattan College, under Jesuits.


    This said, I fall back on NEC Section 110.3. Panelboards are listed products. Part off the listing information is on those labels that are pasted behind where wires tend to go. You have to comply with all the applicable listing instructions to perform a compliant installation.

    This does not say that you must leave those instructions accessible to anyone else who might work on the panel subsequently. Unfortunately, submitting a proposal for An NEC requirement that the area in front of the label be kept clear, to enable the next worker to comply with 110.3, would be laughed out the door.

    Some of the markings, you do have to keep visible despite wiring. UL 67, 2018 edition, Clause 34.1.1, says the the panelboard shall be marked with two items so they're clearly visible after installation: manufacturer's name or equiv, and voltage and current rating and phases. Clause 34.1.3 says these must be visible without disturbing factory- or field-installed wiring.

    I think the four criteria they specify as demonstrating non-visibility could be improved, and I think that this restriction should to most of the markings required in 34, not just the two in 34.1.1. But where are manufacturers going to find such permanently pristine real estate?

    Many NEMA members would say the only plausible answer is a QR code somewhere. Maybe the lip against which the cover sits? Maybe they'd support a pocket or hook that will take the info printed on a tough medium.

    Otherwise, as you pointed out, Jerry, and I guess Dom would espouse, we need all the info on a cover label that matches the loadcenter. Replace the cover with one that fits multiple cabinets and loadcenters , and you'd better get the matching label to paste on it. That's what sounds best to me.


  9. #9
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    Default Re: June recall: Schneider Sq D QO Plug-on Neutral panelboards

    David, regarding:
    This does not say that you must leave those instructions accessible to anyone else who might work on the panel subsequently.
    I'm not even considering 'future work', I'm thinking of the inspectors (electrical code inspectors) whose job it is to follow behind the contractors and inspect those panels ... when the labels have already been hidden by the work the installing electrical contractor did.

    Been there, done that (but no longer have to do that any more).

    Jerry Peck
    Construction Litigation Consultant - Retired
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  10. #10
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    Default Re: June recall: Schneider Sq D QO Plug-on Neutral panelboards

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom D'Agostino View Post

    Frankly, they should put the data plate in a place that's accessible to anyone, not buried inside where no one can quickly check if they have one of the "chance of death" panels installed in their home.
    Dom, they DID. Once they got back to me (five minutes ago) and explained that the info is there once you swing the door open, I corrected my original post.


  11. #11
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    Default Re: June recall: Schneider Sq D QO Plug-on Neutral panelboards

    This PDF contains a very detailed explanation of the location of the product ID's, for both interior panels and exterior panels, whether installed or in the box.

    Last edited by Dom D'Agostino; 07-08-2022 at 05:14 AM.

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