Thread: MSE & service-disconnect before or after Meter?

I inspected an 'upgraded' 1954 Tri-plex the other day. It has an overhead service-drop from a transformer at the back alleyway. The owner recently installed a new MSE (mains cabinet) that was padlocked so I couldn't get inside. It appears the incoming service entrance conductor pathway goes from the weatherhead to the MSE cabinet, into a wire trough, down to 3 individual meter-bases, then through 3 old abandoned 'disco' boxes under each meter, back up to the wire-trough and then into one of three conduits that run up to a gable wall above the MSE and then into the attic and then drop from the attic down to each apartment's subpanel. Got all that!? In my 45 years here in southern Nevada, I don't recall ever seeing the meter 'after' the MSE cabinet or service disconnect. Here are the problems I'm seeing:

1. No City of Las Vegas inspection tag on the new MSE cabinet.
2. No approval tag from the POCO (NV Energy) on the MSE cabinet
3. Disco's before meter instead of 'after'
4. Using the old meter 'disco' box as a 'pass-thru' and the list goes on.

Am I missing something else important here...or do I basically have it right? This looks like the owner hired an electrician to install a new MSE cabinet without 'permits' and the POCO inspection and put the 'disco's in the wrong order on the path from service-drop to subpanels.

Your thoughts?

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They cut the padlock off early this morning so I went back and took photo's with trough & main panel covers 'off'. Here's the photo...

Glenn, no photos are showing, and without them, and with the lack of other information (because it was locked), I can only ask some questions.

IF ... if the service entrance conductors go to the new service equipment panel and to a main service disconnect in it, then that would be the main service disconnect for the service. However, each structure (each one of the tri-plex is its own structure, unless it was treated as one structure back in 1954 ... and what the AHJ allowed or what code they were following back is not known), each structure is supposed to have its own service and service disconnect.

The new service equipment panel would be the change from service entrance conductors to feeders conductors. and not knowing how the new service equipment panel is wired (no photos to look at) ... there are questions, which may not be relevant to what is actually there.

See if you can upload the photos as that would at least provide a starting point.

- - - Updated - - -

Glenn, no photos are showing, and without them, and with the lack of other information (because it was locked), I can only ask some questions.

IF ... if the service entrance conductors go to the new service equipment panel and to a main service disconnect in it, then that would be the main service disconnect for the service. However, each structure (each one of the tri-plex is its own structure, unless it was treated as one structure back in 1954 ... and what the AHJ allowed or what code they were following back is not known), each structure is supposed to have its own service and service disconnect.

The new service equipment panel would be the change from service entrance conductors to feeders conductors. and not knowing how the new service equipment panel is wired (no photos to look at) ... there are questions, which may not be relevant to what is actually there.

See if you can upload the photos as that would at least provide a starting point.

This site doesn't work very well most of the time. It eventually allowed my reply to go through, but only after multiple error messages.

I'll check back in a few days to see if you are able to upload photos, and to see it is is working better then than it is not working well at all now.

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

This site doesn't work very well most of the time.

Agreed, I often can't get past the server errors to get to the posts.

One comment that relates to recent NEC editions:
disconnects before the meter may not be considered service switches but rather Emergency disconnects, a.k.a. firefighters'/first responders' switches per 230.85, if i remember the section right.
Another thought: the equipment is required to be readily accessible. However, that term of art is considered to include equipment that only can be reached by use of a key. Normally I think of this as meaning location in an electric room with a locked door, but that's not the language used. If I remember right, I and a colleague talked about proposing that the key had to be kept at an indicated location on the premises; if se submitted the idea, it got shot down. So a padlock doesn't necessarily indicate disregard for the rules.
A last, sad thought: there are jurisdictions and utilities that are awfully sloppy about applying stickers. An online search or a call to their office might address that question.
Finally, midnight Eastern time seems a promising widow for getting onto this site and being able to post, even if the pictures are absent. Regardless of inconvenience, this is a free service, so as long as it provides an opportunity for us to chew things over, well, okay.