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Thread: bonding wire

  1. #1
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    Default bonding wire

    Inspection Referral SOC

  2. #2
    Richard Moore's Avatar
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    Default Re: bonding wire

    Wayne,

    I see seven cables coming in, including the feeder from what I assume is the service equipment panel. I also see seven bare grounding conductors at the grounding bar, so I would assume one of those is also from the service.

    So, you have a separate grounding bar and a floating "neutral" bar as you should in a "sub" panel. I'm not sure what you want bonded, but it looks OK to me. The panel itself is bonded by the screws securing the grounding bar.


  3. #3
    Bob Mayer's Avatar
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    Default Re: bonding wire

    Quote Originally Posted by wayne soper View Post
    I don't see one do you?
    In this discussion I am assuming that this is not a separate structure on another structure's service.

    I think that one of the first questions to ask when looking at an electrical system is: Which piece is the service equipment? Either this panel is the service or it is not.

    If it is the service, then neutral and the ground should be bonded, with a screw, strap, conductor, or some other approved means. But if it is the service, presumably there is no disconnecting means upstream of it, or that disconnect, or something upstream of it, would be the service, and we have the problem of more than six throws to turn off all power.

    If it is not the service, then there should be both a ground conductor and a neutral conductor coming into the box, and grounds and neutrals should be kept separate.

    Unless there is a ground conductor coming in from the enclosure on the left, from what I can tell from the picture, it looks as if there is a problem.

    - BOB


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    Default Re: bonding wire

    Thanks Richard, read too many posts and had a brainstorm.


  5. #5
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    Default Re: bonding wire

    the thing that interested me in this panel was the fact that in the panel to the left which is the maiun service panel. The Neutrals and grounds are all connected under the same lugs at the bus bar. Two per lug. ground and neutral. the sub panel in the photo has all grounds and neutrals separated.


  6. #6
    Bob Mayer's Avatar
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    Default Re: bonding wire

    Whoops.

    On second (actually, about tenth) look, I think that I see the incoming ground wire at the bottom back edge of the enclosure, it is (duh) the thick one.

    - BOB


  7. #7
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    Default Re: bonding wire

    7 cables
    10 breakers ( 2 of which are tied together, bottom right)
    4 white neutrals
    And the one white wire going to a breaker (is not marked)

    Question
    Are these (Black/ red) 220 volt without a tie bar
    or
    Are they sharing a neutral?

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  8. #8
    Richard Moore's Avatar
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    Default Re: bonding wire

    5 "neutrals", Rick (plus the feeder). 4 on the left bar and one at the right. And I do see something black at the hot white at the very right side of the photo.

    the thing that interested me in this panel was the fact that in the panel to the left which is the maiun service panel. The Neutrals and grounds are all connected under the same lugs at the bus bar. Two per lug. ground and neutral.
    That would be wrong. One neutral, alone, per lug.


  9. #9
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    Default Re: bonding wire

    I understand that it's wrong but, Why do two completely different things on two panels right next to each other, and why didn't the town inspector notice on a 5 year old home?


  10. #10
    James Duffin's Avatar
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    Default Re: bonding wire

    The gray panel to the left looks like a transfer switch. The panel shown in the pic looks like the loads on the generator. The bonding looks ok for a non-service panel.

    Last edited by James Duffin; 05-05-2007 at 08:07 PM.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: bonding wire

    Wayne,

    Is the panel on the left the same one you posted on the other tread?

    (To clarify what we are looking at.)

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  12. #12
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    Default Re: bonding wire

    Jerry,Yes it is.


  13. #13
    Bob Stark's Avatar
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    Default Re: bonding wire

    Regarding these panels, I have read all of your posts about all of the components shown (or not shown) in the panel(s). Are you all licensed electricians as well as HI's? Please note that this is NOT a snide question. To the contrary. Being new to the industry (and yes, one who, over time, will have an increased knowledge base and wants to give the very best customer/client service), I have been told over and over by trainers and some other HI's, that home inspection is VISUAL and to report on things such as melting wires, corrosion, double-tapping and so on. You guys' experience and knowledge of this stuff (in my humble opinion) is absolutely awesome. I'm like a kid listening rapt at Grandpa's ghost stories!
    Just an observation from a newbie !


  14. #14
    Bob Stark's Avatar
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    Default Re: bonding wire

    I guess what I'm saying is if, when I have a peek inside a service panel during an inspection, and everything appears ok (no double-tapping, no melted wires, etc.) that I, as a visual inspector, and not necessarily trained in the fine art of properly wiring a house, would say that the panel is "fine".

    Comments?

    (Here it comes.......) !!!


  15. #15
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    Default Re: bonding wire

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Stark View Post
    I guess what I'm saying is if, when I have a peek inside a service panel during an inspection, and everything appears ok (no double-tapping, no melted wires, etc.) that I, as a visual inspector, and not necessarily trained in the fine art of properly wiring a house, would say that the panel is "fine".

    Comments?

    (Here it comes.......) !!!
    With experience comes knowledge, with knowledge comes a greater understanding of the term "visual", i.e., the understanding that 'if you can see it and you know about what you are looking at' - that's "visual"

    Now, for a further comment on "visual" .... do you use a circuit tester of any kind? A thermometer of any kind? A screw driver? A ... you get the picture ... how far do you want to take "visual"?

    A truly "visual" inspection would be walking around with *no* tools other than a flashlight to light up what cannot be seen - *no* "test" equipment of any kind.

    A home inspection, by today's standard, is far more than a "visual" inspection.

    Agreed?

    Regarding your other post - most of us are not electricians, plumbers, HVAC technicians, roofers, etc., however, most of us have stayed at a Holiday Inn on occasion.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  16. #16
    Bob Stark's Avatar
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    Default Re: bonding wire

    Well, I'm new so I stayed at a Super 8, does that count?!

    Seriously, I see your point about "... how far do you want to take 'visual'...."
    Of course, I take along a virtual hardware store with me! Light, driver, several pieces of testing equipment. If the inspection were indeed TRULY visual only, my report would probably include the comment, "Yes, THAT is an electrical panel! It looks to be in good shape with recently oiled hinges. Recommend the hinges be oiled once a year." I get the idea. And of course, I understand also that with time and experience comes knowledge.
    You guys are awesome. I have learned so much, and I know I will continue to do so.
    Thanks.
    Bob


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