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  1. #1
    Peter Drougas's Avatar
    Peter Drougas Guest

    Default Arguing with an Electrician!

    I have a detached condo that had the basement finished after construction. I discovered the 20 AMP circuit for the finished room to have 15 AMP rated receptacles, Mixed 12 and 14 gauge wires on the same circuit in the walls, doubled neutrals at the panel for the new wiring in the basement and all the original boxes for the lights are missing covers (now being used as junction boxes for the new lights). I didn't make a huge deal about it, but told the buyer is was wrong.
    The seller had a licensed Electrician over and was told that all my issues are in code! Since when can you mix 20 AMP 12 guage with 15 AMP 14 gauge, let alone the other obvious stuff.
    Please tell me it's not me!

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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
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    26,248

    Default Re: Arguing with an Electrician!

    Tell that stupid electrician that he should know he cannot use a 20 amp breaker to protect 15 amp conductors.

    That alone should make him stop and think, and if he does not stop and think, he needs the proverbial *2x4 upside the head* to knock some sense into him.

    Disregarding everything else ... he should know and understand the above.

    You could start off by being polite and telling your client to tell the seller to have the electrician state, in writing, that he can install a #14 AWG, 15 amp rated, conductor on a 20 amp breaker and that is accepted and proper protection. Then have your client tell the seller that when his electrician writes that letter, you will be glad to take it to the city electrical inspector ... so the electrical inspector can contact that electrician and find out WTF that electrician is thinking. The electrical inspector may want to swing that 2x4 upside the electrician's head.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  3. #3
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
    Ron Bibler Guest

    Default Re: Arguing with an Electrician!

    OK Print up what Jerry stated and give that to the buyer.

    Best

    Ron


  4. #4
    Bob Spermo's Avatar
    Bob Spermo Guest

    Default Re: Arguing with an Electrician!

    Jerry,

    I agree with you in your critique of the electrician. I do, however, have a related question. When I look at Table E3602.13 of the 2006 IRC it looks permissable to use 12AWG, a 20 amp circuit breaker and either a 15 or 20 amp receptacle. Am I interpreting this table correctly?


  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Chicago
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    164

    Default Re: Arguing with an Electrician!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Spermo View Post
    Jerry,

    I agree with you in your critique of the electrician. I do, however, have a related question. When I look at Table E3602.13 of the 2006 IRC it looks permissable to use 12AWG, a 20 amp circuit breaker and either a 15 or 20 amp receptacle. Am I interpreting this table correctly?
    Hello Bob,

    You can use 15 amp receptacles as you described provided there is more than one receptacle.

    Corey


  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
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    26,248

    Default Re: Arguing with an Electrician!

    As Corey said, yes to multiple 15 amp receptacles on 20 amp circuits, however, this relates to the original question (and somewhat to your question), from the 2006 IRC:

    (underlining is mine)
    E3601.4 Multi-outlet branch circuits.
    Conductors of multi-outlet branch circuits supplying more than one receptacle for cord-and-plug-connected portable loads shall have ampacities of not less than the rating of the branch circuit.

    And we also know that the rating of the branch circuit must be equal to, or greater than, the rating of the overcurrent protection for that branch circuit (except for ac condenser units when the ampacity of the circuit meets the minimum stated on the nameplate and the overcurrent protection rating meets the maximum stated on the nameplate).



    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

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