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  1. #1
    MaMa Mount's Avatar
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    Default Them copper wires

    Are the copper wires all twisted up in the picture suposed to be like that?

    Think someone called them ground wires.

    TIA

    Mama Mount

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Them copper wires

    Don't worry about them, ... that's a Zinsco panel anyway.

    It is "service equipment" (hopefully) and the neutral is on the left, so that means those *are not* from the SEC, that they are separate grounding conductors twisted together - not allowed.

    More importantly are all those neutrals which look like there are 2-3 per terminal, and that newer one with 2 grounding conductors and 1 neutral conductor in it.

    But ... ... like I said, "Don't worry about them, ... that's a Zinsco panel anyway." - replace it, then make sure to comment about the electrician - a competent electrician - "installing the new panel *correctly*.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Them copper wires

    Man! That's an accident waiting to happen!

    What about the grounds and neutrals under the same terminal!!!

    Best thing to do is get a wrecking saw and start about 6 inches from the top and start whacking away!!


  4. #4
    MaMa Mount's Avatar
    MaMa Mount Guest

    Default Re: Them copper wires

    Mr. Peck

    How can you tell just buy the photo that it is a Zinsco panel. The label was missing fromthe panel so I could not tell.
    I am confused about why a Zinso panel is not recommended. I thought that was only the Fedaral Pacific ones.
    What should i tell my cleint about Zinco's?


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Them copper wires

    Here is a web site about the Zinsco Panels. I don't know how Jerry could tell but if it is, it's very bad!

    Zinsco Electrical Panel and Circuit Breaker Hazards, Failures, Inspection, Detection, Repair, Replacement - Sylvania Zinsco circuit breakers and panel hazards


  6. #6
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    Default Re: Them copper wires

    Quote Originally Posted by MaMa Mount View Post
    How can you tell just buy the photo that it is a Zinsco panel.
    Those 'L' shaped bus bars. Only Zinsco had them. (Thankfully.)

    I am confused about why a Zinsco panel is not recommended. I thought that was only the Fedaral Pacific ones.
    Those bus bars are designed (with that upward facing leg of the 'L') to have the breakers placed straight in.

    The breakers have matching long slots, so they can be placed straight in.

    However, the breakers have to be 'hooked' under the retainer on the wire end, which means the breakers have to be 'rotated in' instead of placed straight in.

    The contacts from the breaker scratch up the plating on the bus bars, the breaker contacts and the bus bars arc and burn, the aluminum bus bars melt (I've seen them melted completely through), the breaker do not come off, they weld themselves on to the bus bars.

    The poor contact between the breakers and the bus bars creates resistance, which means more heat, which creates more resistance, which creates more heat ... just a very poor design which has failed miserably.

    Top that off with a little paint on the bus bars and the problem is even worse, from day one the breakers are installed. Most Zinsco panels were used in 'cheaper homes', which were built by 'cheaper' builders, who hired 'cheaper' subcontractors, any wonder why so many are totally covered with paint?

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    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  7. #7
    MaMa Mount's Avatar
    MaMa Mount Guest

    Default Re: Them copper wires

    Another quickie question.

    Is 5 ground wires to many under a lug in a Sq. D panel. There was plenty of other ones for use.

    Mama Mount

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  8. #8
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    Default Re: Them copper wires

    Quote Originally Posted by MaMa Mount View Post
    Another quickie question.

    Is 5 ground wires to many under a lug in a Sq. D panel. There was plenty of other ones for use.

    Mama Mount
    Yep, one per lug. That's the reason you have so many!

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  9. #9
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    Talking Re: Them copper wires

    MaMa, There is something about you that looks familiar. You closed your e-mail so there is no way to contact you. Send me a e-mail so we can find out what we have in common.


  10. #10
    MaMa Mount's Avatar
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    Default Re: Them copper wires

    No you may not you weirdo. Nothin in common either. My hair is luxurious and you are losing yours.

    Mama

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  11. #11
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    Talking Re: Them copper wires

    I have been known to look like Homer, and there is something else we have in common I just can't figure it out.


  12. #12
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    Default Re: Them copper wires

    Quote Originally Posted by MaMa Mount View Post
    Another quickie question.

    Is 5 ground wires to many under a lug in a Sq. D panel. There was plenty of other ones for use.

    Mama Mount
    5 is too many. Check the instructions on the panel. Some allow 2 equipment ground wires of the same size under one lug. But, if they don't state that it is like Scott says, one per lug.

    My pet peeve is the grounded conductor (neutral) and equipment ground wires paired under one lug in a service panel. Especially when an electrician comes out and says, "Ain't nothin wrong with that! Home inspectors are a bunch of stupid jerks."

    The above statements are expressed solely as my opinion and in all probability will conflict with someone else's.
    Stu, Fredericksburg VA

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