I have a satellite pole buried and cemented 3 feet in the ground. I don't think this is deep enough to get a good ground. I have read that the house should share a common ground. So do to this I need to run a ground wire about 75 feet to the service box.

I have two 18" satellite dishes on the pole, each have two LNB's. I purchased a grounding block that will ground 4 LNB's.

Questions:
From the ground at the service box to the satellite pole is around 75 feet. Is #6 solid copper wire ideal for this or is it a bit of an overkill. Can I use #8 or #10? Also, there will be at least a half dozen bends in the ground wire from point to point. Does this matter as this is not the ground coming from the service box? Finally, is it ok to secure the ground wire to a wooden floor joist or does this need to be outside the house?

One last thing...Rather than run a wire 75 feet would it be a better idea to pound a 10 foot rod into the ground next to the satellite dish pole?

I want to do this grounding project properly and am open to any suggestions and comments.

Thanks in advance!

Refer to 810.21(F) 2008 NEC or the edition of the NEC in effect in the area your work is installed in.

__________________
Not knowing with the slightest degree of accuracy I could not presume to designate per adventure I might err.

Hi Fred,

Thank you for replying. I have no idea what this means. I am an IT professional and have some understanding of electricity at the 5 volt and smaller level, DC.

What I am looking for is not something etched in stone as I realize codes are different depending on where you live. This satellite installation is in my home and I have a problem with it and was told to properly ground the entire system and the problem will go away.

If you live in the United States, more than likely the standard will be the national electrical code. NEC. Using this standard will assure proper grounding. Seriously, if you earth your system as provided for in the NEC, your problem will undoubtedly vanish.

__________________
Not knowing with the slightest degree of accuracy I could not presume to designate per adventure I might err.

Fred is referring to this:
- From the 2008 NEC. (underlining and bold are mine)
- - 810.21 Grounding Conductors — Receiving Stations.
- - - Grounding conductors shall comply with 810.21(A) through (K).
- - - - (A) Material. The grounding conductor shall be of copper, aluminum, copper-clad steel, bronze, or similar corrosion-resistant material. Aluminum or copper-clad aluminum grounding conductors shall not be used where in direct contact with masonry or the earth or where subject to corrosive conditions. Where used outside, aluminum or copper-clad aluminum shall not be installed within 450 mm (18 in.) of the earth.
- - - - (B) Insulation. Insulation on grounding conductors shall not be required.
- - - - (C) Supports. The grounding conductors shall be securely fastened in place and shall be permitted to be directly attached to the surface wired over without the use of insulating supports.
Exception: Where proper support cannot be provided, the size of the grounding conductors shall be increased proportionately.
- - - - (D) Mechanical Protection. The grounding conductor shall be protected where exposed to physical damage. Where the grounding conductor is run in a metal raceway, both ends of the raceway shall be bonded to the grounding conductor or to the same terminal or electrode to which the grounding conductor is connected.
- - - - (E) Run in Straight Line. The grounding conductor for an antenna mast or antenna discharge unit shall be run in as straight a line as practicable from the mast or discharge unit to the grounding electrode.
- - - - (F) Electrode. The grounding conductor shall be connected as required in (F)(1) through (F)(3).
- - - - - (1) In Buildings or Structures with an Intersystem Bonding Termination. If the building or structure served has an intersystem bonding termination, the grounding conductor shall be connected to the intersystem bonding termination.
- - - - - (2) In Buildings or Structures with Grounding Means. If the building or structure served has no intersystem bonding termination, the grounding conductor shall be connected to the nearest accessible location on the following:
- - - - - - (1) The building or structure grounding electrode system as covered in 250.50
- - - - - - (2) The grounded interior metal water piping systems, within 1.52 m (5 ft) from its point of entrance to the building, as covered in 250.52
- - - - - - (3) The power service accessible means external to the building, as covered in 250.94
- - - - - - (4) The metallic power service raceway
- - - - - - (5) The service equipment enclosure, or
- - - - - - (6) The grounding electrode conductor or the grounding electrode conductor metal enclosures
- - - - - - A bonding device intended to provide a termination point for the grounding conductor (intersystem bonding) shall not interfere with the opening of an equipment enclosure. A bonding device shall be mounted on non-removable parts. A bonding device shall not be mounted on a door or cover even if the door or cover is non-removable.
- - - - - (3) In Buildings or Structures Without Intersystem Bonding Termination or Grounding Means. If the building or structure served has no intersystem bonding termination or grounding means, as described in 810.21(F)(1).
- - - - - - (1) To any one of the individual electrodes described in 250.52; or
- - - - - - (2) If the building or structure served has no grounding means, as described in 810.21(F)(1) or (F)(2), to an effectively grounded metal structure.
- - - - (G) Inside or Outside Building. The grounding conductor shall be permitted to be run either inside or outside the building.
- - - - (H) Size. The grounding conductor shall not be smaller than 10 AWG copper, 8 AWG aluminum, or 17 AWG copper-clad steel or bronze.
- - - - (I) Common Ground. A single grounding conductor shall be permitted for both protective and operating purposes.
- - - - (J) Bonding of Electrodes. A bonding jumper not smaller than 6 AWG copper or equivalent shall be connected between the radio and television equipment grounding electrode and the power grounding electrode system at the building or structure served where separate electrodes are used.
- - - - (K) Electrode Connection. Connections to grounding electrodes shall comply with 250.70.

__________________
Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
www.AskCodeMan.com

Hi Jerry,

Thank you for this information. I do live in the United States. Michigan.
What I believe this to say is

I only need a 10 gauge copper wire.

The ground from the mast should be as straight as possible. Does this mean I should drive a ten foot rod in the ground right next to the satellite pole? Or is it saying I am to use the existing ground seventy five feet away at the service box? As previously noted to do this will require about a half dozen bends in the ground wire.

Steve

Steve,

Because the main purpose of the grounding electrode system is to reduce damage from lightning strikes and to take those strikes to earth ground in the most direct route possible, through the least resistance possible, you should install a grounding electrode at the antenna dish pole, making sure the grounding electrode (if a driven rod) is at least 8 feet long, using a 10 foot rod would be even better.

The part which needs to be run as straight as possible is the grounding conductor from the dish to the grounding electrode you just installed:
- (E) Run in Straight Line. The grounding conductor for an antenna mast or antenna discharge unit shall be run in as straight a line as practicable from the mast or discharge unit to the grounding electrode.

The grounding conductor needs to be run and connected as:
- (F) Electrode. The grounding conductor shall be connected as required in (F)(1) through (F)(3).
- - (1) In Buildings or Structures with an Intersystem Bonding Termination. If the building or structure served has an intersystem bonding termination, the grounding conductor shall be connected to the intersystem bonding termination.
- - (2) In Buildings or Structures with Grounding Means. If the building or structure served has no intersystem bonding termination, the grounding conductor shall be connected to the nearest accessible location on the following:
- - - (1) The building or structure grounding electrode system as covered in 250.50
- - - (2) The grounded interior metal water piping systems, within 1.52 m (5 ft) from its point of entrance to the building, as covered in 250.52
- - - (3) The power service accessible means external to the building, as covered in 250.94
- - - (4) The metallic power service raceway
- - - (5) The service equipment enclosure, or
- - - (6) The grounding electrode conductor or the grounding electrode conductor metal enclosures
- - - A bonding device intended to provide a termination point for the grounding conductor (intersystem bonding) shall not interfere with the opening of an equipment enclosure. A bonding device shall be mounted on non-removable parts. A bonding device shall not be mounted on a door or cover even if the door or cover is non-removable.
- - (3) In Buildings or Structures Without Intersystem Bonding Termination or Grounding Means. If the building or structure served has no intersystem bonding termination or grounding means, as described in 810.21(F)(1).
- - - (1) To any one of the individual electrodes described in 250.52; or
- - - (2) If the building or structure served has no grounding means, as described in 810.21(F)(1) or (F)(2), to an effectively grounded metal structure.

Now that you have installed the new grounding electrode you will need to bond that electrode to the existing grounding electrode system:
- (J) Bonding of Electrodes. A bonding jumper not smaller than 6 AWG copper or equivalent shall be connected between the radio and television equipment grounding electrode and the power grounding electrode system at the building or structure served where separate electrodes are used.

__________________
Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
www.AskCodeMan.com

Hi Jerry,

Thank you for the reply.

In the short of this I need to drive a 10 foot rod in the ground right next to the mast. No problem.

Ground the mast to the 10 foot rod. No problem.

Run #6 copper wire from the ground rod to the cold water copper pipe in the house as this is where the house is grounded to. Is this right?

If this is correct then I understand what needs to be done.

Steve

So far so good, but you could use an 8 foot ground rod (but 10 foot would be better).

No.

You would need to run that grounding electrode bonding conductor around to where the service is grounded and connect it to the grounding electrode conductor, a grounding electrode, or in the service equipment to the grounding electrode conductor there.

The interior metal water piping is "bonded" to ground, it is not being used as a ground throughout the house.

You do not want to use that as a grounding electrode conductor (which is what you would be doing in your description), you want to run all the way around to wherever the existing ground rod/whatever is.

__________________
Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
www.AskCodeMan.com

Hi Jerry,

I appreciate you taking time to assist me in this project.

My house is grounded to the water well as I live in the country. There is a heavy copper wire coming out of the service box and is clamped to the cold water pipe where the water comes into the house. This is why I thought I could clamp the #6 wire to the cold water copper pipe as it would be on the same piece of pipe that leads to the water well. Will this work?

I do not believe there is a grounding rod for the service box. I could be wrong.

Steve

Steve,

No.

You would need to run around the house where that "heavy copper wire coming out of the service box" is connected to the cold water supply pipe ... which would need to be within the first 5 feet if inside the house, or before it enters the house if outside.

[quote[I do not believe there is a grounding rod for the service box. I could be wrong.[/quote]

If you do not have a ground rod you would need to drive two ground rods there, at least 8 feet long and at least 6 feet apart (not *6 feet* apart, but *at least* *6 feet* apart, preferably more, by at least an inch or two, or even a foot. I am presuming that the underground metal water service piping is your only grounding electrode.

__________________
Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
www.AskCodeMan.com

Hi Jerry,

The water well is 76' deep. The heavy copper wire is clamped to the water pipe a few inches inside the brick wall where the pipe enters the house. Wouldn't this give me a much better ground than a rod?

Thank you,

Steve

Yes, it is much better than a ground rod ... (see below at the bottom) ...

But just don't take that the step further and presume that it is better, or even acceptable, to connect that grounding bond conductor to a cold water pipe on the other end of the house like you were thinking of doing.

Run that grounding electrode bonding conductor around to the service where its grounding electrode conductor is attached to that underground water pipe and well casing.

... but (from above at the top) ... the code REQUIRES that if an underground water pipe is used that it be supplemented with a ground rod (okay, the code does not state "ground rod", the code states "shall be supplemented by an additional electrode of a type specified in 250.52(A)(2) through (A)(8)", which includes "ground rods", "plate electrodes", "ground rings", and other electrodes).

The reason is that, while that well casing may very well make an excellent grounding electrode, there is the very real possibility that the underground metal water pipe will eventually be replaced with a non-metallic pipe, which makes that well casing *totally useless* as an electrode, and which is why the supplemental electrodes are required.

__________________
Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
www.AskCodeMan.com