Laundry room sink. Outlet next to sink is a GFCI outlet, works fine. Another outlet 2 feet away is not GFCI. House was built in 1977.
How would you write this up?

I said the other outlet should be upgraded to GFCI.

Thanks for your answers.

Dave

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Dave Hill
Buyers & Sellers Property Inspections LLC
WWW.BuyersSellersPi.Com

In 77 a laundry room sink was not required to be GFI protected. So, the one in place may have had the outlet/protection added at some point. Is the one that is not GFI the 110 volt outlet for the washing machine? If so, those often aren't GFI protected even in new construction, at least not in my area.

The root of your question is really how far down the road of suggesting/recommending/requiring an older house be updated to the standard of a newer house?

Here is the comment I paste into my reports...

GFI protection is recommended in all wet locations (kitchen, bathroom, exterior and garage). This feature was not common when the house was built but is a recommended safety upgrade given the potential hazard of using electricity around water.

The GFI thing is particularly tricky when it comes to old houses vs new. There have been a lot of changes in the code over the years, thus a lot of different recommendations. That is why I choose to go fairly general.

Others will likely chime in with some different approaches... the above method has worked for me but is in no way the only way.

Here in Texas, TREC licensed inspectors are required by the TREC SoP to compare ALL dwellings (regardless of age) to the current standards of the NEC in regard to GFCI protection.

From the TREC SoP;

"...(2) inspect all accessible receptacles and report as in need of repair a receptacle in which:

...(G) ground fault circuit interrupter devices are not properly installed as set forth by the current edition of the National Electric Code, publication 70A of the National Fire Protection Association, or do not operate properly as shown by use of a separate testing device;"

Now from the 2005 NEC in article 210.8 titled "Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for Personnel."

"...(A) Dwelling Units. All 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere receptacles installed in the locations specified in (1) through (8) shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.

...(7) Laundry, utility, and wet bar sinks — where the receptacles are installed within 1.8 m (6 ft) of the outside edge of the sink."

It seems that we have a winner! Here in Texas we would write your described situation up as being in need of repair.

BUT WAIT! There is an exception or two in the code to consider and Matt touched on this in his earlier post.

Also from the 2005 NEC;

"Exception No. 2 to (2): A single receptacle or a duplex receptacle for two appliances located within dedicated space for each appliance that, in normal use, is not easily moved from one place to another and that is cord-and-plug connected in accordance with 400.7(A)(6), (A)(7), or (A)(8)."

So if the outlet in question is a plug installed within the dedicated space for the washer/dryer then the exception would apply and, Here in Texas, we would not be required to write that up as being in need of repair.

Clear as mud?

Write it up, fix it, just like you would in a bathroom if no GFCI was installed.

While the house was built in 1977, the electricity is of current vintage ... the electricity in that outlet within 6 feet of the laundry sink can hurt people today.

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Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
www.AskCodeMan.com

I like that! "current" vintage....

RR

__________________
"If con is the opposite of pro, is Congress the opposite of progress?"
Richard Rushing, HCRI
Duncanville, Tx.

We as home inspectors need to get everyone to realize that there is no such thing as 'Grandfathered" in our profession. It either is or it is not.

Report what you find. An outlet in the laundry room was not GFCI protected. It should be GFCI protected.

That is about all we need to do. I really could care less if the home was built in the 1800's or in 2005.

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Scott Patterson
Spring Hill, TN
http://www.traceinspections.com

Thank you all for the quick responses.

Cheers!

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Dave Hill
Buyers & Sellers Property Inspections LLC
WWW.BuyersSellersPi.Com

ASHI's SOP states a home inspector is to inspect "a representative number of installed lighting fixtures, switches, and receptacles". I have seen "representative number" interpreted as "one per room". If an inspector does not exceed ASHI's SOP that means he would inspect only one kitchen outlet. In this case if he happened to inspect the GFCI-protected outlet he would not have caught the non-GFCI-protected outlet. Just another example of a benefit of exceeding the SOP.

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"Baseball is like church. Many attend but few understand." Leo Durocher
Bruce Breedlove
www.avaloninspection.com

Dave, is there a chance that the second outlet is down stream of the GFCI outlet and therefore protected?
Just wondering since it is two feet away.

The pun was intended.

__________________
Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
www.AskCodeMan.com

Just playing devil's advocate here.... Do you recommend that all of the lower sheetrock be removed and that every stud to baseplate connection be done with 8d nails instead of 6d nails because the code changed?

I realize that electrical issues are more important and that many state's SoP's require to call out the absence of GFI's... mine doesn't so I really can't 'require' anything.

I'm sure the intent of your post wasn't this but taken literally, you're saying you'd go into a 5 year old house and becuse the code has changed it should all be rebuilt?

Well, that is really not a safety issue.

Home inspectors can't require anything. All we can do, or I should say "should do" is to report what we see.

Nope, not one bit. Common sense has to play a role in what we as home inspectors report and do. Older homes need to be safe so anything I consider to be unsafe I report on and offer an opinion as to what might make it better or safer.

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Scott Patterson
Spring Hill, TN
http://www.traceinspections.com

Dave, …. I’m curious to know if you tested (intentionally trip) the other outlet that was 2 feet away with a tester ? As I often find, and as it should be, tripping one standard outlet in a bathroom will trip the GFCI in another bathroom. One GFCI outlet can protect a series of outlets. This applies with kitchen outlets, or where ever GFCI’s are required. I’m thinking that “possibly” that other outlet (2 feet away) could have been protected from the GFCI near the sink ? Just a thought ?

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Robert
Roberts Home Inspection Service

No home inspector can't "require" anything.

I am sure that your state *does not* say *you shall not* write up missing GFCIs, right?

If not, why can't you write them up?

(Playing devil's advocate here.)

__________________
Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
www.AskCodeMan.com

I never said I don't write them up... of course I do. But it's a recommendation.

And I was more referring to the overbroad statement that 'there is no such thing as grandfathering in our profession' - It wasn't clear to me that all Scott was talking about was electrical.

Also, didn't somebody post an exception that basically states the outlet in question is not required to be GFI protected? In my area washing machine outlets most often are not.

I use standard comments for different situations. An older home with two-wire ungrounded branch circuits isn't considered to have defective wiring, and neither is the absence of GFCI's in this case...well, maybe in Texas! And, exterior locations in, what, '71? Then baths, then kitchens, then garages, then laundries, etc, etc. It's safe enough and surely simple enough to strongly recommend it as a safety upgrade in all wet locations, and the receptacles are relatively cheap. They work on the two-wire systems, too, as we all know (I think). I go one better: I recommend them upstream in bedroom circuits, to give a measure of added protection without having to make expensive wiring upgrades. Kind of a poor man's AFCI, if you will. There is certainly nothing that says you can't, and if you happen to be buying a home with a two-wire system, it's not a bad idea at all. And, most beautifully of all, it doesn't tick off the Realtor Gods.

Dave said "Laundry room sink. Outlet next to sink is a GFCI outlet, works fine. Another outlet 2 feet away is not GFCI."

Nothing about that being the laundry outlet.

__________________
Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
www.AskCodeMan.com

If the outlet is within 6 feet of the sink it should be a GFCI protected outlet.If it,s a double outlet and one side is used for the washing machine the potentail to plug another appliance into the open side is still there.The double should be changed to GFCI and a single outlet dedicated to the washing machine installed.A lot of rewiring I know,but the proper solution.

Mike Holt's take, as of May 1, 2007:

"Laundry and wet bars. GFCI protection is required for receptacles located within 6 feet of a laundry, utility room, or wet bar sink [210.8(A)(7), 210.52(F)]. There are no exceptions to this rule, so even a receptacle for a clothes washer must be GFCI protected if it is within 6 feet of the sink..."

Branch Circuits - Applying GFCIs and AFCIs

Yeah, try telling the dead persons family it met code in 1977. I report all safety issues and advise correction no matter what the circumstances. That way it's off my conscious.