FPE Stab-Lok Panel and Aluminum Wire - InspectionNews

Chris Skoczylas · #1 (**permalink**) 07-27-2007, 05:52 PM

I did an inspection today on a 1969 mobile home with a FPE Stab-Loc electrical panel with aluminum wiring. As I entered one of the bedrooms, I turned on the light switch by the door. It controlled one of the wall outlets. After inspecting the room, I turned the switch off and noticed it was hot to the touch. The cover screws were almost hot enough to burn you. I shut the breaker off to this room.
I guess this is a perfect example of why we should write these panels up.

Chris Skoczylas · #2 (**permalink**) 07-27-2007, 06:21 PM

The home owner was there and when I showed her the hot switch she suggested that I turn off the breaker.
What bothers me is if my client backs out of the sale, this short still needs to be fixed. The owner was moving out of state tomorrow.

Joseph P. Hagarty · #3 (**permalink**) 07-27-2007, 06:51 PM

Chris,

You are not responsible for "advice not taken".

neal lewis · #4 (**permalink**) 07-27-2007, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Skoczylas

I guess this is a perfect example of why we should write these panels up.

I think it has a lot more to do with the aluminum wire than the panel box.

Matt Fellman · #5 (**permalink**) 07-27-2007, 08:25 PM

Wow, aluminum wiring, an FPE panel and a mobil home.... what a trifecta!

Rick Hurst · #6 (**permalink**) 07-27-2007, 10:18 PM

Chris,

I hope this image don't keep you up all night worrying.

Jerry Peck · #7 (**permalink**) 07-28-2007, 07:30 AM

Rick,

Usually, with mobile homes, by the time the fire department can get there, there is nothing left to spray water on ... except for smoldering embers.

Those suckers go up FAST.

John Steinke · #8 (**permalink**) 07-28-2007, 09:05 AM

Sometimes, in discussion forums, the hair-splitting gets rather silly. Other times - and this is one - it seems everyone focuses on the "mote" and misses the 'beam."

As far as this thread is concerned, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the panel; and the brand of manufacture is irrelevant trivia.

The switch was hot, and the breaker didn't trip? So? 20 amps will make a lot of heat. Just look at any toaster, hair dryer, or space heater. We have no reason to infer that the breaker was not operating properly.

Nor was there any sort of 'short circuit.'

What did exist was a high resistance connection. This could have been everything from a loose wire to a switch wearing out from old age. Perhaps the cause was the aluminum wiring; or. perhaps, the switch was not approved for use with aluminum wire. Or, again, just ordinary wear and tear.

If it was simply an old switch, the replacing the panel and completely re-wiring the house will not make the slightest difference in the temperature of the switch.

I'm also assuming this was an ordinary switch; a heavily loaded dimmer switch can feel 'hot' in normal operation. ("hot" and "warm" being rather subjective terms}.

#9 (**permalink**) 07-28-2007, 02:08 PM

I agree with your Reply!

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Steinke

Sometimes, in discussion forums, the hair-splitting gets rather silly. Other times - and this is one - it seems everyone focuses on the "mote" and misses the 'beam."

As far as this thread is concerned, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the panel; and the brand of manufacture is irrelevant trivia.

The switch was hot, and the breaker didn't trip? So? 20 amps will make a lot of heat. Just look at any toaster, hair dryer, or space heater. We have no reason to infer that the breaker was not operating properly.

Nor was there any sort of 'short circuit.'

What did exist was a high resistance connection. This could have been everything from a loose wire to a switch wearing out from old age. Perhaps the cause was the aluminum wiring; or. perhaps, the switch was not approved for use with aluminum wire. Or, again, just ordinary wear and tear.

If it was simply an old switch, the replacing the panel and completely re-wiring the house will not make the slightest difference in the temperature of the switch.

I'm also assuming this was an ordinary switch; a heavily loaded dimmer switch can feel 'hot' in normal operation. ("hot" and "warm" being rather subjective terms}.

Jerry Peck · #10 (**permalink**) 07-28-2007, 04:19 PM

Frank,

Welcome to the inspection board.

I see you are in Orlando, and are a C. B. O., with a municipality or with a private company?

James Duffin · #11 (**permalink**) 07-28-2007, 04:57 PM

If your client is buying a mobile home with aluinmum wiring and a FPE panel then they are buying a problem home. This is a bad combo in a mobile home. I hope you told them so!

Scott Patterson · #12 (**permalink**) 07-28-2007, 05:02 PM

Just being a 38 year old manufactured home and it is still standing is the amazing part. Add in the FPE and aluminum wire and Ripley's might want to talk with the owner!

Chip Nai · #13 (**permalink**) 07-29-2007, 07:19 AM

Chris, I am just a little curious about your recommendations. Did you advise that the FPE panel be changed-out to a known reliable panel, and did you check the electrical devices to determine if they are Aluminum compatible (or advise that they be checked by an electrician for such)??? Just curious.

Jerry Peck · #14 (**permalink**) 07-29-2007, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chip Nai

Did you advise that the FPE panel be changed-out to a known reliable panel,

I would change the wording of that from "to a know reliable panel" to "from a known problematic panel to a new panel'.

I would hate to say "known reliable" than have the replacement panel be defective and cause problems.

Richard Rushing · #15 (**permalink**) 07-29-2007, 08:09 AM

Boy... now, you are talking the difference between an RCH and a regular old black one.

RR

Eric Van De Ven · #16 (**permalink**) 07-29-2007, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Tough call whether to turn a breaker off or not. Personally, I just tell the agents to tell seller to get electrician ASAP.

BTW: Does anyone know or heard of if insurance companies have issues with FPEs? Do you tell your client they might?

First off, just because a switch "feels" hot doesn't mean there is something wrong with it. This is another use for that laser thermometer! If the switch was say, 150 degrees, I would say you have a problem.

Next up, the insurance issue. While at my wifes 20 year class reunion, I was talking to an Allstate agent. I asked her about aluminum wiring. She said "We don't insure any home with aluminum wiring or fuses". I also spoke with a State Farm agent a while back and they don't either. Of course, neither one of them had heard about FPE panels, but they know now!

Quote:

I would change the wording of that from "to a know reliable panel" to "from a known problematic panel to a new panel'.

I would hate to say "known reliable" than have the replacement panel be defective and cause problems.

I would just say "recommend replacement of the service panel" and leave it at that.

Chris Skoczylas · #17 (**permalink**) 07-29-2007, 04:59 PM

I did a search of past posts on FPE panels and wrote a paragraph in my report about their high failure rate. I also explained the problems with aluminum wire. These were just a few of many problems with the homes electrical system. I recomended further evaluation with remedy as necessary by a licensed electrical contractor familiar with these issues.

#18 (**permalink**) 08-03-2007, 04:33 PM

mr. peck,
thanks for the welcome. working for a muni-support frim. sorry i missed your reply till now. do not know how to use this format well but am lernin.

Dom D'Agostino · #19 (**permalink**) 08-03-2007, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank C. Carter

do not know how to use this format well but am lernin.

"but am lernin"?

What Department in Orlando do you work for?

Rick Hurst · #20 (**permalink**) 08-03-2007, 05:11 PM

Hey, if there's a green tag it must be ok.

This one is twice OK!

Jerry Peck · #21 (**permalink**) 08-03-2007, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank C. Carter