type 1 enclosure - InspectionNews

Jerome W. Young · #1 (**permalink**) 01-28-2008, 03:09 PM

can you put a type 1 indoor sub panel in an outdoor shed.

Note the service wiring size? pretty sure that is too small

Paul Kondzich · #2 (**permalink**) 01-28-2008, 03:27 PM

Not sure about the type of panel, but that wire feeding the panel appears to be #12 which is good for 20 Amps. Looks like youve got a minimum of 60 Amps there. So yes its too small. I sure the rest of us will tear apart the rest of that setup

John Arnold · #3 (**permalink**) 01-28-2008, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Kondzich

... that wire feeding the panel appears to be #12 which is good for 20 Amps. Looks like youve got a minimum of 60 Amps there. So yes its too small. ..

Comparing the sum of the breaker ratings to the size of the feeders doesn't really tell you much. Many 100 amp panels have 300+ amps in breakers installed.

Paul Kondzich · #4 (**permalink**) 01-28-2008, 03:53 PM

I understand that John, but, it (appears) that the wire coming off the breakers is larger than the wire feeding the panel. No way is that right.

John Arnold · #5 (**permalink**) 01-28-2008, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Kondzich

...the wire coming off the breakers is larger than the wire feeding the panel. No way is that right.

The fact that the branch conductors might be bigger than the feeders isn't in itself a problem.

Paul Kondzich · #6 (**permalink**) 01-28-2008, 04:09 PM

OK I guess we will have to see what the rest of the peanut gallery thinks

Matt Fellman · #7 (**permalink**) 01-28-2008, 04:55 PM

Are those white wires attached to the bus bar charred? They look black... which could certainly accompany the problems already mentioned.

I think HD should make you fill out a competency test before selling people electrical equipment.

Jerome W. Young · #8 (**permalink**) 01-28-2008, 05:25 PM

cabinet rated for 60 amp; yes neutrals and grounds connected and black

Billy Stephens · #9 (**permalink**) 01-28-2008, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerome W. Young

Note the service wiring size? pretty sure that is too small

# 6 cooper would be the minimum or #4 Aluminum.

If it's inside an enclosed building it doesn't matter if it's a 3500sf house or 100 sq. ft shed.

John Steinke · #10 (**permalink**) 01-28-2008, 06:30 PM

The size of the feeder wire is determined entirely by the size of the breaker feeding it - and not the size of the breakers, or wires, being fed. As long as those wires come from a 20 amp (or smaller) breaker, they're fine.

To answer your original question, though .... "inside" is inside. If it's got a roof over it, NEMA-1 is just fine. Or, perhaps more accurately ... NEMA-1 is just fine for any dry, or damp, location.

Billy Stephens · #11 (**permalink**) 01-28-2008, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerome W. Young

Note the service wiring size? pretty sure that is too small

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Steinke

The size of the feeder wire is determined entirely by the size of the breaker feeding it - and not the size of the breakers, or wires, being fed. As long as those wires come from a 20 amp (or smaller) breaker, they're fine.

.

John,

?????

Jerry Peck · #12 (**permalink**) 01-28-2008, 07:53 PM

John is correct.

Billy,

Think of it this way: 20 amp breaker feeds a #12 AWG circuit (20 amps), which feeds a 60 amp panel, which has 60 amps of breakers in it.

Question: How much current is going to be able to be drawn through that #12 AWG wire?

Answer: 20 amps - otherwise the 20 amp breaker feeding it will trip.

Okay, though, here is something else to consider: I doubt those terminals (the mains or the neutral) are rated for use with that small of a conductor. The neutral is an easy fix, and I have no idea why it was not done - simply move it to a smaller terminal on that same bar.

Don't forget the open knock out on the right.

Also, that is not the "service equipment" yet the green ground conductor is in the same terminal bar as the neutral - and that is not allowed.

Billy Stephens · #13 (**permalink**) 01-28-2008, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerome W. Young

Note the service wiring size? pretty sure that is too small

Jerome,

What Size breaker was in the Main Service Panel that feeds this panel?