Grounding to polybutylene - InspectionNews

Paul Kondzich · #1 (**permalink**) 03-05-2008, 12:58 PM

Hey Billybob, go ahead and put that ground wire on that copper pipe. Gee I never seen that gray pipe, wonder what it is????????

Jerry Peck · #2 (**permalink**) 03-05-2008, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Kondzich

Hey Billybob, go ahead and put that ground wire on that copper pipe. Gee I never seen that gray pipe, wonder what it is????????

Paul,

Actually, they did not bond to the PB, they did as required, and as they should have ...

They bonded to the "interior metal water piping system" ...

Okay, now define ... "water piping system"?

Right, there is none. BUT ... in your photo, I see portions of an "interior metal water piping system" ... at least by my definition of it.

Thus, they did nothing wrong, in fact, they did it correctly.

Jon Randolph · #3 (**permalink**) 03-05-2008, 05:16 PM

Actually, they did do something wrong. That is a glavanized clamp in contact with the copper piping, risking a galvanic reaction. They should have used brass.

I also report when they use galvanized supports for hanging pipe.

Mike Schulz · #4 (**permalink**) 03-05-2008, 05:22 PM

Looks like piping off a gas water heater. Don't see a shut off valve. Maybe it's outside that closeup. I hope you pointed out the PB pipe.

Jerry there is enough pipe to justify and who knows where in the walls it goes but how much pipe would justify a bond ? Is there any set rules?

Paul Kondzich · #5 (**permalink**) 03-05-2008, 05:25 PM

The copper you see is all there is in the whole place. The only reason it is there I think is because they took the old water heater off the stand and set it on the floor (of the garage.) So, Jerry is there a specific amount of copper that makes that OK. Thanks.

Jerry Peck · #6 (**permalink**) 03-05-2008, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Randolph

Actually, they did do something wrong. That is a glavanized clamp in contact with the copper piping, risking a galvanic reaction. They should have used brass.

Oops. I didn't even look to see what the clamp was made of ...

Jerry Peck · #7 (**permalink**) 03-05-2008, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Kondzich

The copper you see is all there is in the whole place.

So, Jerry is there a specific amount of copper that makes that OK. Thanks.

Well ...

When I was in South Florida, we defined that as being 'if there is over 5 feet of metal piping' or 'there are more than one branches for that distance' ...

The reason for the '5 feet' was because that would eliminate a single riser from a tub control to a shower head (certainly *not* 'a system'), or, 'more than one branch for that distance' (i.e., for that greater than five feet) because more than one branch is 'a system'.

That's what, and why, we used what we used.

Jim Luttrall · #8 (**permalink**) 03-05-2008, 06:54 PM

In 2003 IRC, E3509.7 it states "Where installed in or attached to a building or structure, metal piping systems, including gas piping, capable of becoming energized shall be bonded..."
If the "system" can become energized then it needs to be bonded. I don't see any hard and fast rule, but the reason is there, we just need to apply it.
Lest a newby read this, this is to bond the pipe, not ground the electrical system, totally different purposes.

Jerry Peck · #9 (**permalink**) 03-05-2008, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall

Lest a newby read this, this is to bond the pipe, not ground the electrical system, totally different purposes.

I tried to address that by changing the word in my first post, probably to subtle for a person not familiar with it to catch.

Glad you are making a specific point of stating that.

Paul Kondzich · #10 (**permalink**) 03-06-2008, 02:52 PM

I dont know that that is a bond. New wire, new clamp, 1984 house.

Mike Schulz · #11 (**permalink**) 03-06-2008, 03:44 PM

If they moved the water heater then the bond wire may have not been long enough so they replaced it. But the way it's strung across there it doesn't look like it and they might of just put a new clamp on it

(I don't know that that is a bond) Green jacket wire clamped to water pipe, it's a bond.

What do you think it is?

Peter Plein · #12 (**permalink**) 03-07-2008, 05:55 AM

Galvanized clamp? I sure can't tell that. Don't assume just because it is silver in color. It most likely is a diecast alloy and may indeed be approved for copper.