De-rating Revisited - InspectionNews

Victor DaGraca · #1 (**permalink**) 03-15-2008, 12:12 PM

Would you say that this bundle should be de-rated and/or appropriate repairs be conducted by a licensed and qualified electrician?
I already called out the missing knockout.

And, while I'm at it.... there was an addition to this house... a patio was enclosed.... some electrical was run.... all other breakers being original.... all squareD.... this one caught my eye.... could it be one of those bogus SquareD breakers?

John Arnold · #2 (**permalink**) 03-15-2008, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victor DaGraca

Would you say that this bundle should be de-rated and/or appropriate repairs be conducted by a licensed and qualified electrician?
I already called out the missing knockout.

Everything shouldn't be stuffed through together like that, but for de-rating they have to be bundled for at least 24 inches, if memory serves.

Victor DaGraca · #3 (**permalink**) 03-15-2008, 12:27 PM

Thanks John.... now that you mentioned the 24"......

Gunnar Alquist · #4 (**permalink**) 03-15-2008, 12:56 PM

I think that you will also find that strain relief clamps are required, not a bushing.

David Banks · #5 (**permalink**) 03-15-2008, 01:40 PM

Connecticut Electric Recalls Counterfeit Square D Circuit Breakers Due To Fire Hazard

Victor DaGraca · #6 (**permalink**) 03-16-2008, 06:18 AM

David;
Here's the problem I'm having....

your link shows a genuine breaker .... Connecticut Electric Recalls Counterfeit Square D Circuit Breakers Due To Fire Hazard

this link shows a counterfeit.....
Counterfeit "Square D" Circuit Breakers

They look Identical

The best comparison I got was at North American Breaker Co. Recalls Counterfeit Circuit Breakers Due to Fire Hazard

Now.... look again at the picture I posted.... They look nothing like the genuine OR the counterfeit....

I e-mailed Schneider electric hoping to get an answer...

here's a pic of the comparison

David Banks · #7 (**permalink**) 03-16-2008, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victor DaGraca

David;
Here's the problem I'm having....

your link shows a genuine breaker .... Connecticut Electric Recalls Counterfeit Square D Circuit Breakers Due To Fire Hazard

this link shows a counterfeit.....
Counterfeit "Square D" Circuit Breakers

They look Identical

The best comparison I got was at North American Breaker Co. Recalls Counterfeit Circuit Breakers Due to Fire Hazard

Now.... look again at the picture I posted.... They look nothing like the genuine OR the counterfeit....

I e-mailed Schneider electric hoping to get an answer...

here's a pic of the comparison

I had the same problem looking at your pics. Thats why I posted the link with no comment.

Good luck.

Lee Nettnin · #8 (**permalink**) 03-16-2008, 09:28 AM

Victor,
I believe your breaker is one of Square D's new Homeline series and is made to fit other panel boxes as well as there own.
Lee

Jerry Peck · #9 (**permalink**) 03-16-2008, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunnar Alquist

I think that you will also find that strain relief clamps are required, not a bushing.

Yep.

So, even if they are like that for less than 24" ... they are *STILL* "wrong".

Victor DaGraca · #10 (**permalink**) 03-16-2008, 08:58 PM

Jerry;
Even though I can't ascertain that those wires do or don't run like that for 24" I'd still "assume" (dangerous word there) that the amount of wires and their proximity within that orifice would produce excessive heat build up.

Of course I'm not an electrician or an engineer and even the IRC does not specifically dis-allow (prohibit) that specific scenario, that being said.... if it looks like a duck......

Jerry Peck · #11 (**permalink**) 03-16-2008, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victor DaGraca

Even though I can't ascertain that those wires do or don't run like that for 24"

That's why I quoted Gunnar (and am doing so again).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunnar Alquist

I think that you will also find that strain relief clamps are required, not a bushing.

Forget about the 24" and derating, go on to something which is plainly visible.

Correct THAT, and, by virtue of correcting that, you are also correcting the un-verifiable 24" ... whether or not if it - er - "was" (as in "past tense") 24" or greater, or less, no longer matters.

Victor DaGraca · #12 (**permalink**) 03-17-2008, 04:28 AM

You know..... sometimes things in plain sight make a dope outa me.... All along I thought Gunnar was refering to the lone wire on the left coming through the bushing. (no strain relief clamp)
THEN.... Outa the blue.......

Thanks Jerry
Thanks Gunnar
Thanks to all...

Victor DaGraca · #13 (**permalink**) 03-17-2008, 02:37 PM

Ok... I received a reply from Schneider Electric. Here it is.
Lee .... Looks like you hit it.

Dear Victor DaGraca:
Thank you for your internet inquiry. I asked the plant and corporate offices to look at this picture. Neither can confirm or deny that the breaker shown on that picture is a counterfeit breaker. From the corporate people, they have said there have been no known instances at this time of counterfeit HOM, or Homeline breakers.

To verify for sure, we would need to have the product returned to us for inspection by one of our engineers. You may contact a local field sales office to initiate this process.

To find the Square D/Schneider Electric Sales Office nearest you, click the following link:
http://ecatalog.squared.com/ssearch/

Please feel free to contact us, should you have any further questions.

Regards,
Kevin McDonald.
Product Support Specialist.
Schneider Electric
1-888-778-2733