Can Lights - InspectionNews

David Block · #1 (**permalink**) 03-18-2008, 09:20 PM

I hate asking dumb questions but I need an answer. When can lights are installed in a home, is there an easy way to determine if they are insulation contact or not without removing light bulbs or anything like that?

Rick Hurst · #2 (**permalink**) 03-18-2008, 09:54 PM

Are you asking about being in touch with the attic insulation?

Rick Hurst · #3 (**permalink**) 03-18-2008, 09:58 PM

If your in the attic you might see this sticker on the can light fixture.

Jim Luttrall · #4 (**permalink**) 03-18-2008, 10:04 PM

If you see light through the slots in the can, rest assured, that is not IC rated. I think to see a positive label indicating IC rating though you would have to look inside the fixture for the label.

David Block · #5 (**permalink**) 03-19-2008, 07:09 AM

I was afraid of that. How do you guys handle the can lights. I've found attic spaces where one can light will have a box built around it to provide clearance from the insulation but then there are 4 more can lights buried under insulation. What are you suppose to assume or say, if anything, about that? How would you handle it?

David Banks · #6 (**permalink**) 03-19-2008, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Block

I was afraid of that. How do you guys handle the can lights. I've found attic spaces where one can light will have a box built around it to provide clearance from the insulation but then there are 4 more can lights buried under insulation. What are you suppose to assume or say, if anything, about that? How would you handle it?

Like Rick says look for sticker in attic I move insulation if needed. If you can not confirm I would recommend Licensed Electrician for verification that they are IC rated. Most all houses will have some other electrical issue that has to be addressed so while he is there have him check it out.

David Block · #7 (**permalink**) 03-19-2008, 07:51 AM

Thats a very good point. It is a rare day that I find a house with no electrical problems. A couple weeks ago in a newly constructed house with the certificate of occupancy already being issued, there were splices not in junction boxes, open junction boxes and one wire that the electrician tried to pull through a raceway and stripped all the sheathing off. I'm not sure how these things got overlooked but they sure did.

Jim Robinson · #8 (**permalink**) 03-19-2008, 10:32 AM

I normally unscrew a bulb and look inside the fixture if I'm not sure.

Dom D'Agostino · #9 (**permalink**) 03-19-2008, 01:27 PM

Sometimes it's easy to see them...

Markus Keller · #10 (**permalink**) 03-19-2008, 06:49 PM

Obviously checking the label for IC rated or non-IC rated is the best way to check for sure. An easy, usually reliable method is to look at the color and construction of the can.
White metal can - usually not IC rated
Silver aluminum can - usually IC rated
This is based on the cans sold in the chicago area.

Corey Friedman · #11 (**permalink**) 03-20-2008, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall

If you see light through the slots in the can, rest assured, that is not IC rated. I think to see a positive label indicating IC rating though you would have to look inside the fixture for the label.

Hi Jim,

You can have IC cans with slots that you can see light through. I would not rely on slots in the can to determine if it was IC or not.

Corey

Jerry Peck · #12 (**permalink**) 03-20-2008, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall

If you see light through the slots in the can, rest assured, that is not IC rated. I think to see a positive label indicating IC rating though you would have to look inside the fixture for the label.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corey Friedman

Hi Jim,

You can have IC cans with slots that you can see light through. I would not rely on slots in the can to determine if it was IC or not.

Corey

Slots in the can do tell you that the can is not an "air tight" recessed light, and "air tight" recessed lights are required by most energy codes, have been in Florida since the first energy code in 1983 with poor wording, since 1997 with specific wording.

From the 2006 IECC.

- 402.4.3 Recessed lighting. Recessed luminaires installed in the building thermal envelope shall be sealed to limit air leakage between conditioned and unconditioned spaces by being:
- - 1. IC-rated and labeled with enclosures that are sealed or gasketed to prevent air leakage to the ceiling cavity or unconditioned space; or
- - 2. IC-rated and labeled as meeting ASTM E 283 when tested at 1.57 psi (75 Pa) pressure differential with no more than 2.0 cfm (0.944 L/s) of air movement from the conditioned space to the ceiling cavity; or
- - 3. Located inside an airtight sealed box with clearances of at least 0.5 inch (12.7 mm) from combustible material and 3 inches (76 mm) from insulation.

In other words, if the ceiling is insulated and you see open slots, non-air tight recessed lights were used. Whether they are IC rated or not, they are still wrong.

Corey Friedman · #13 (**permalink**) 03-20-2008, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Slots in the can do tell you that the can is not an "air tight" recessed light, and "air tight" recessed lights are required by most energy codes, have been in Florida since the first energy code in 1983 with poor wording, since 1997 with specific wording.

From the 2006 IECC.

- 402.4.3 Recessed lighting. Recessed luminaires installed in the building thermal envelope shall be sealed to limit air leakage between conditioned and unconditioned spaces by being:
- - 1. IC-rated and labeled with enclosures that are sealed or gasketed to prevent air leakage to the ceiling cavity or unconditioned space; or
- - 2. IC-rated and labeled as meeting ASTM E 283 when tested at 1.57 psi (75 Pa) pressure differential with no more than 2.0 cfm (0.944 L/s) of air movement from the conditioned space to the ceiling cavity; or
- - 3. Located inside an airtight sealed box with clearances of at least 0.5 inch (12.7 mm) from combustible material and 3 inches (76 mm) from insulation.

In other words, if the ceiling is insulated and you see open slots, non-air tight recessed lights were used. Whether they are IC rated or not, they are still wrong.

Hi Jerry,

Not all areas have adpoted the energy code that require air tight cans.

They also are not "wrong" when the code changes or becomes adpoted. All those non air tight IC cans installed in the 1970's 1980's and 1990's are not wrong, just old school.

In the Chicago as an example, you do not have to install air tight cans.

Corey

Jerry Peck · #14 (**permalink**) 03-20-2008, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corey Friedman

Not all areas have adpoted the energy code that require air tight cans.

True, but many areas have or have their own energy code.

Quote:

They also are not "wrong" when the code changes or becomes adpoted. All those non air tight IC cans installed in the 1970's 1980's and 1990's are not wrong, just old school.

Yep, just like old a/c units - just old like old gas hog cars, no need to keep them running forever as your "daily driver", but if you want to keep them as a "classic", sure, go ahead.

Corey,

Would you also respond to the thread ( Aluminum Wire in service panel ) regarding anti-oxidant paste at the bottom of the thread? Thanks.

Brandon Chew · #15 (**permalink**) 03-20-2008, 03:26 PM

Just to clarify, IC rating (or clearance) and air tightness are two different requirements for two different purposes: IC rating (or clearance) to reduce risk of fire and air tightness to reduce energy loss and moisture movement through conditioned to unconditioned space.

It's possible to have a fixture & installation that does not meet either one or both of those requirements at the same time:

non-IC with too little clearance and not sealed
IC or clearance ok and not sealed
non-IC with too little clearance and sealed

Might be low odds of finding that last one but we've seen some wacky things done to homes.

Jerry Peck · #16 (**permalink**) 03-20-2008, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandon Chew

It's possible to have a fixture & installation that does not meet either one or both of those requirements at the same time:

Which is why I wanted to bring up 'the other' condition to be looking for - not 'just IC' but 'IC and air tight' (where there is an energy code).

Brandon Chew · #17 (**permalink**) 03-20-2008, 08:53 PM

Understood....just taking your pass and running a bit with the ball.

John Allingham · #18 (**permalink**) 03-22-2008, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corey Friedman

Hi Jim,

You can have IC cans with slots that you can see light through. I would not rely on slots in the can to determine if it was IC or not.

Corey

Agree. The white potlight with the slots is not IC rated. The silver one is .