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05-14-2008, 06:57 PM
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Member
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 14
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Exterior GFCI's
Can someone tell me when exterior outlets were required to be GFCI protected?
Thank you,
Chris
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05-14-2008, 07:24 PM
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Member
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Charlotte NC
Posts: 53
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Re: Exterior GFCI's
GFCI Code Changes
1970 All garages
1971 Bath receptacles over counters
1975 Outdoor receptacles
1981 Within 10' of hot tubs
1987 Basements & within 6' of kitchen sinks
1990 Crawlspaces, except dedicated outlets i.e. sump pumps
1993 All bathroom receptacles & around wet bars & all
receptacles over kitchen counter tops & all outdoor receptacles.
2002 ARC fault circuits for all bedroom lights and receptacles
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05-14-2008, 07:35 PM
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Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ormond Beach, Florida
Posts: 6,065
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Re: Exterior GFCI's
.Yep.
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05-15-2008, 04:55 AM
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Member
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 14
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Re: Exterior GFCI's
Thanks guys
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05-15-2008, 06:56 PM
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Member
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: Rumney, N.H.
Posts: 2
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Re: Exterior GFCI's
hi;  Is there not an exclusion of GFCI near sinks, designated for refrigerator/ freezers?
Stephen DeCosta
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05-15-2008, 07:15 PM
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Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 547
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Re: Exterior GFCI's
I think the requirement is for receptacle outlets that serve the counter surfaces. Since the fridge outlet is generally behind the appliance, it cannot really serve the counter surfaces. However, I have seen counter appliances plugged into the fridge receptacle, particularly when there are a limited number of outlets at the counter.
__________________
It IS as bad as you think, and they ARE out to get you.
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05-15-2008, 07:36 PM
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Member
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 24
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Re: Exterior GFCI's
Don't think you want to plug a frig or freezer into a GFCI outlet. I believe these appliances can trip the GFCI, which is not a good thing (especially if you're gone for a few days).
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05-15-2008, 08:12 PM
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Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ormond Beach, Florida
Posts: 6,065
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Re: Exterior GFCI's
Chris,
Read this thread from yesterday and a few days ago, it covers your question exactly.
Switched Outlet w/out GFCI under sink
Originally Posted by Jerry Peck
No - go to NEC 210.8 (A) (6) Kitchens — where the receptacles are installed to serve the countertop surfaces.
Those, and only those, receptacles in kitchens are required to have GFCI protection (admittedly, though, that covers 'almost all' of the receptacles in kitchens).
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05-16-2008, 05:55 AM
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Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Albany, NY
Posts: 226
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Re: Exterior GFCI's
Originally Posted by Brent Crouse
Don't think you want to plug a frig or freezer into a GFCI outlet. I believe these appliances can trip the GFCI, which is not a good thing (especially if you're gone for a few days).
Brent, this is folklore. If the appliance trips the GFCI then there is a problem with the appliance. Many threads in the archives are devoted to debunking this myth.
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05-16-2008, 06:19 AM
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Member
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 24
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Re: Exterior GFCI's
Brandon,
I had a freezer in the basement that would trip the GFCI. Once I moved it to a regular receptacle, no further problems. I guess what I'm saying is that if you have a choice, it's better to not use the GFCI for frig and freezer. The GFCI is just doing it's job, and if it receives false alarms, you could end up with a smelly (and possibly costly) mess.
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05-16-2008, 06:43 AM
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Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Albany, NY
Posts: 226
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Re: Exterior GFCI's
Brent, the GFCI isn't getting false alarms, the freezer needs to be fixed or replaced. By moving it off the GCFI you've decreased the risk of having some rotten food and increased the risk of getting a nasty shock some day when you touch it at the same time you are making a good path to ground.
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05-16-2008, 06:51 AM
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Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Cartersville, GA
Posts: 65
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Re: Exterior GFCI's
Jerry ---
I've handed out (or included in reports) many copies of the thru 2005 GFCI chart since you gave us permission to do so)....
Do we HI's have permissioin to distrubute (with proper attribution, of course) the 2008 GFCI and AFCI charts?
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05-16-2008, 06:57 AM
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Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ormond Beach, Florida
Posts: 6,065
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Re: Exterior GFCI's
Bob,
"Do we HI's have permissioin to distrubute (with proper attribution, of course) the 2008 GFCI and AFCI charts?"
Yes.
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05-16-2008, 08:13 AM
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Member
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 14
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Re: Exterior GFCI's
Jerry,
Excellent charts...Thank you for help. On that note, are there any other handouts/info home inspectors feel are beneficial to share with their clients?
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05-19-2008, 02:53 PM
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Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 71
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Re: Exterior GFCI's
Vern said GFCI's required in "1990 Crawlspaces, except dedicated outlets i.e. sump pumps", is this true? My understanding is a sump pump NEEDS to be GFCI protected. Has this changed since 1990, and does anybody have the code reference? Thanks! Dave
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05-19-2008, 06:21 PM
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Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ormond Beach, Florida
Posts: 6,065
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Re: Exterior GFCI's
Originally Posted by Dave Mortensen
does anybody have the code reference?
Dave,
Did you download and review the chart I posted above?
Review notes 7a, 7b, 7c, 7d, 7e, for unfinished basements.
I know, you asked about "crawlspaces", I have not found any exceptions for receptacles in "crawlspaces" not being required to have GFCI protection.
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05-20-2008, 09:58 AM
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Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 71
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Re: Exterior GFCI's
I looked at the chart and didn't find the sump pump exception, but I will do more research to see where I thought the sump needed GFCI protection. Maybe if it's a dedicated circuit it doesn't have to be??? Thanks Jerry, Dave
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05-20-2008, 06:51 PM
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Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ormond Beach, Florida
Posts: 6,065
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Re: Exterior GFCI's
Originally Posted by Dave Mortensen
I looked at the chart and didn't find the sump pump exception, but I will do more research to see where I thought the sump needed GFCI protection.
Dave,
Did you read the notes I pointed out?
Did you read the chart for unfinished basements and crawlspaces, for which those notes apply?
I think you are trying so hard to find something which does not exist that you are not reading what you are reading, you are 'looking for' what you are trying to find ... there is a difference.
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05-20-2008, 07:09 PM
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Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 71
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Re: Exterior GFCI's
This is according to the Municipality of Anchorage: Handout AG.20
"Sump Pump Discharge Requirements
There continues to be major problems with sump pump discharge to remove water from crawl spaces or structures.
Discharge onto adjacent properties and discharge into streets causes glaciation and creates safety hazards and
heavy damage to MOA Street Maintenance snow removal equipment. Under no circumstances can a sump pump
be discharged into the Municipality of Anchorage sanitary sewer system, across property lines or impede public
right-of-ways or cause glaciation on streets.
The following are approved locations and methods for discharging sump pumps from residential or commercial
structures in the Municipality of Anchorage:
1. Tie in all discharge of sump pumps to storm drains where available.
2. Discharge may be directed to open drainage ditches as long as no glaciation onto streets or traveled
roadways occurs.
3. If there is adequate natural ground covering to allow seepage into the soil, discharge may be made onto
property as long as sheet discharge does not cross a property line.
4. The minimum distance away from a building that a sump may be discharged is three feet.
For engineered foundations requiring drainage, the following must be added to the plans to allow for approval:
• footing drains must be shown and installed with slope to sump location;
• sump must discharge to an approved location, see items 1-3 above;
• pump must have a ground fault circuit interrupter on the electrical circuit, and it must be shown on plans;
• crawl space access must afford/allow access for the maintenance and/or replacement of the sump;
• provide detail for sump enclosure, include diameter depth, material used as drainage filter."
Under #4 it talks about the GFCI protection needed. I was just wondering where I got the information from that a sump pump specifically had to be protected, whereas Vern quoted that it did not have to be if it was a dedicated circuit. Maybe it's a regional thing to "spell it out" like Anchorage has, even though the code calls for it. It helps to have the documentation from the Muni when I come across a home built prior to 1990 w/o the protection on the circuit. Thanks Jerry, Dave
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05-20-2008, 07:40 PM
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Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ormond Beach, Florida
Posts: 6,065
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Re: Exterior GFCI's
Dave,
Let's do it this way.
Download and open the GFCI page.
Go across the top row to "Crawlspaces".
Go down that column to the first year with the "X" and any notes to the "X" (there are not notes to the "X").
The first year that receptacles in Crawlspaces was in the NEC was 1990, and it includes *ALL* receptacles in the crawlspace - there are no exceptions, never have been any.
Prior to 1990, though, any receptacles in the crawlspace did not require GFCI protection.
Now, however, move across the top row to "Unfinished Basements", go down to the first "X" and note the applicable notes, "7"a, b, c, d, e, variations as the codes progressed through the years.
Under "Unfinished Basements" you will find "sump pump" listed at "7b", thus, from 1990 through to 2004 (the last year of the 2002 NEC before the 2005) sump pumps were excepted out of having required GFCI protection. In 2005, though, that exception went away.
Did the above help in that format?
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05-20-2008, 08:12 PM
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Member
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 71
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Re: Exterior GFCI's
Yes, so as of 2005 the sump pump needs GFCI protection (no exception). My original question regards Vern's statement that it wasn't needed "1990 Crawlspaces, except dedicated outlets i.e. sump pumps", but now you pointed out that:
Under "Unfinished Basements" you will find "sump pump" listed at "7b", thus, from 1990 through to 2004 (the last year of the 2002 NEC before the 2005) sump pumps were excepted out of having required GFCI protection. In 2005, though, that exception went away.
Anchorage now wants all sump pumps to be GFCI protected, and now I know where they get that from.
I recommend GFCI protection for all appropriate locations despite the age of the home, which is why I recommend it for sump | | | | |