Fellow HI comrades:

What is the maximum number of branch outlets you can have connected downstream from a single GFCI outlet? Can someone please send a brief code excerpt that would support this? Many thanks!

Situation:
New construction (finished). There is one GFCI in the master bathroom. This one GFCI outlet serves 3 branch outlets in master bath, 2 in a upstairs hall bath and one in a downstairs hall bath. This seems to me to be an excessive number of branch outlets served off of a single GFCI. Not to mention very inconvenient when tripped for folks having to hoof it to the master bath to reset it.

A properly wired GFCI receptacle will provide ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection on all downstream outlets on the circuit. The code does not put a limit on the number of 15A or 20A receptacles that can be installed on the circuit.

Not everything is about code. If common sense came in a bottle, everyone would have some.
The builder saved a couple of bucks by not running copper and investing in a couple more GFCI outlets.
What he did though, was cause the homeowner headaches.
Not to mention that if the "one" GFCI goes bad, as they do, everything downstream will be left unprotected.
IMO each room should have its own dedicated circuit.

I have run across a single GFCI outlet in a living room that "controlled" every other location in and out of the house that required protection.

Were the downstream outlets protected? yes.
was this right?.... not in my opinion and I let the buyer know it.

The least they could have done, and I mean the least, was to have installed a GFCI breaker in the panel.

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Critical Home Inspection Services
www.Home2Spec.com

Common practice in this area is to have one GFCI for all the bathrooms in the whole house, usually placed in the master bath or the 1/2 bath downstairs. That is assuming a 3-4 bath house.

Then there are two in the kitchen, one for each 20 amp circuit. And there is a third in the garage for the garage, exterior, and crawlspace outlets. Sometimes I see one more in the laundry room.

A rule of thumb, not code, is about 8-10 outlets per 15/20 amp circuit. The circuit is only going to allow 1500 amps before the breaker trips. One hairdryer or 15 lamps can be used at the same time. Usually not all outlets on a circuit are in use at the same time so it is not a problem.

Code does not put a maximum number of outlets on a branch circuit. It is controlled by the wire and breaker size. Too many appliances plugged and running, the breaker trips. There is a minimum of two 20 amp for a kitchen and I believe 1 lighting circuit and 1 outlet circuit for an entire house. The other rule that comes into play is you must have outlets on any wall greater than 2 feet in a room, one every 12 running feet in a room, and one in a hallway. Kitchens, bathrooms, closets and other non-habitable rooms are excluded.

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Bruce Ramsey
Advocate Inspections
www.NCAdvocate.com

Sounds like some areas of the country are a lot more liberal. If I find a GFI that controls anything not located within that room, I call it out as a BS install. Builders/Realtors of course call me a 'you know what'. Once I explain to the client the hassle involved, ask them if they will possibly remember that the one GFI here controls those receps upstairs and if they will enjoy paying an electrician for a stupid service call, the seller usually ends up doing some separating.
By the way I saw a kitchen recently, every recep was a GFI (8 or 9, I forget). Talk about Joe DIY not really knowing what he was doing.

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Accurate Inspections & Consulting, Inc.
773/844-4AIC
Markus Keller

I always advised my clients that code does not address "convenience", but the builder should, unless they were buying a "minimum house". My clients were not buying "minimum houses" and I doubt any of yours are too (when is the last time - first time even - that you inspected a Habitat for Humanity minimum house?).

My clients would brow beat the builders into installing GFCI's at every location, until eventually the builders started doing that themselves.

The best way for a builder to reduce warranty customer service work is not to nit pick their buyers, give them the small things without complaining, the other things mostly seem to disappear - unless it is a really big thing, in which case the builder should have caught it themselves.

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Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )

"Talk about Joe DIY not really knowing what he was doing."

???

Sounds like you did not know what you were doing.

See, I have the same reference for knowing what you were thinking as you had for knowing what that DIY Joe was thinking.

*I* always recommended to my clients that they have the builder do that EXACT THING.

And, IN FACT, this Joe DIY did that very same thing in his kitchen.

Guess this Joe DIY did not really know what he was doing, did he?

EVERY receptacle in our house which is required to have GFCI protection *IS* a GFCI receptacle. Including ALL the ones in the kitchen, ALL the ones on the porch, ALL the ones in the garage, etc.

When a GFCI trips, I want to be able to reach right there at the plug and reset it.

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Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )

I'm sure it's a lot bigger deal for us at the inspection than it is for the homeowner. I think I've had one GFCI trip in my house in 15 years. I've got 50 year old ungrounded wiring and a lot lightning and outages. Honestly, if you're tripping a GFCI over and over, there is something wrong. Maybe it's better if they have to walk all of the way down stairs to reset it. That way they may think about what is causing the device to trip.

It is a pain during the inspection, however.

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Jim Robinson
New Mexico, USA

Why not just make them all walk out to the panel, use GFCI breakers?

"Convenience" of having the GFCI reset right at the receptacle has nothing to do with "tripping a GFCI over and over", it only has to do with tripping it that one time when you are using it.

And testing it properly - every 6 months.

Which is more likely (admittedly, neither is likely to happen):

- Testing a GFCI when the GFCI is in the panel.

- Testing a GFCI when the test button and reset button are right there at each receptacle.

I think the latter ... ummm ... wonder what that button does ... Oh! Hey, it trips that GFCI! How about that! ... (presses reset button)

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Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )

"EVERY receptacle in our house which is required to have GFCI protection *IS* a GFCI receptacle. Including ALL the ones in the kitchen, ALL the ones on the porch, ALL the ones in the garage, etc.

When a GFCI trips, I want to be able to reach right there at the plug and reset it."

I don't think the last part is entirely correct. If more than 1 GFCI outlet is on the same circuit, it possible the GFCI 'upstream' will trip before the one that actually has the fault will.

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Darren
Succasunna, NJ
www.aboutthehouseinspections.com

I wouldn't think so. Because if you wired them so that each GFCI was wired so that the rest of the GFCI's were independent of each other then the plug that faulted would be the one that tripped. In other words don't wire the others down the line to be part of "that" GFCI. Every plug would come off the main wire and not the protected side of the plug. Does that make any sense????

Am I wrong on thinking this way?

Come on Jerry, we clearly differ on this. I see little good reason to have every recep along a countertop wall be a GFI. It's a waste of money. One GFI per wall length controlling the rest of the receps along that countertop wall works just fine. If you want an actual GFI at every location go ahead. As long as the regular receps are properly GFI protected, I'm not complaining.
I have to agree with others, that if the GFI is repeatedly tripping there are probably other issues. I can't remember any of ours tripping in any recent years.

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Accurate Inspections & Consulting, Inc.
773/844-4AIC
Markus Keller

Not when each is wired as by-pass, not feed-through.

*ONLY ONE* GFCI will trip ... the one right there at the receptacle.

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Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )

Clearly, we do thing of it differently.

Clearly, you do not see it, that, however, only means *YOU* do not see it, it does not mean that there is no good reason for it.

Clearly, you should learn to open your mind and see more clearly.

CLEARLY (your word) you cannot see the advantage of using multiple GFCIs.

CLEARLY *I* did not say anything about frequent or multiple tripping of GFCI, *I* only mentioned the convenience factor for when one does trip.

CLEARLY you and some of the other need to open your minds and think that not everyone is, or wants to be, as limited as you are.

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Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )

Not open minded, limited in thinking, now you are just being rude.
Let's take the kitchen I saw. Approximately 12' of wall/countertop on one leg of 'L' shape, approx. 7' on the other leg of the 'L'. Every single recep was a GFI. (8-9)
As far as I am concerned if each wall length has one GFI protecting the rest of the receps along that wall length, all is good.
Please explain how you think this is wrong, inadequate or whatever term you'd like to use. Every recep a GFI, you have any idea how much money that adds up to? Please tell me why a someone should spend another $12 per opening.
I am more than open minded enough to listen to your reasons.

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Accurate Inspections & Consulting, Inc.
773/844-4AIC
Markus Keller

Marcus,

No, being rude and limiting is when you stated:

Clearly indicating that if anyone thinks different from you, they certainly cannot be using "good reason".

Open you mind, step outside your box, there CLEARLY ARE many good reasons to have EVERY RECEPTACLE a GFCI receptacle.

*YOU* may not think so, but what *YOU* think does not cover what we all think.

CLEARLY so.

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Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )

Markus I totally agree with one GFCI peotecting a row of outlets along a countertop!

You have a 12 to 14 ft wall with several outlets along the backsplash area of the countertop. One GFCI would fit the needs and if one outlet made the GFCI trip then it is easily fixed with a two or three steps to the GFCI and reset it.

Why have a GFCI on every outlet when one will provide all the protection that you need! Wasted money and totally overkill! And guess what...it meets code and it's also easy to see which outlet is the GFCI and needs resetting in case of a ground fault!!

I think installing a GFCI in a situation like this is *WAY OUTSIDE THE BOX*! Probably out in left field somewhere!

I have to agree though having a GFCI in the master bathroom protecting all bathrooms is a little pain in the wazzuu area when it comes to figuring out where the GFCI is that feeds the 1/2 bath on an upstairs bedroom is located. It's to code but that is a situation where I think an extra GFCI would benefit the homeowner.

That's where the winning home run is hit ... way out over left field ... Grand Slam, wins the game by 1!

That's where you are supposed to be thinking " *WAY OUTSIDE THE BOX* ".

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Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )

Come on guys lets get back to reality. Did it meet code when the house was built? Is it the responsibly of inspectors to verify for their cleint that the house and property that they are concidering on purchasing still meets the building standards (code) when it was built?

It does not make a difference if the builder or previous owner added any extras (over kill) as long it meets the building standards. If as an inspector you can get a homeowner into adding something more than what is required, just because you as an inspector thinks it would be more convenience for the buyer, more power to you.