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  1. #1
    Jeff Cieslik's Avatar
    Jeff Cieslik Guest

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Can someone identify this damage?

    It is known as White Pocket rot or sometimes called Pock rot.

    rick


  3. #3
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
    Ron Bibler Guest

    Default Re: Can someone identify this damage?

    Rick is correct. Advanced decay:white pocket rot.


    its in a doormat state. it was that way when it was installed. as long as the area is dry no big deal.



    Just make a note: of it with no further recommendation.
    other then it should be inspected along with the rest of the structure from time to time. Any further information required the owner/buyer should employ a licensed structural pest control inspector to advise as necessary.


    Best

    Ron


  4. #4
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    Default Re: Can someone identify this damage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Bibler View Post
    Just make a note: of it with no further recommendation.
    other then it should be inspected along with the rest of the structure from time to time. Any further information required the owner/buyer should employ a licensed structural pest control inspector to advise as necessary.


    Best

    Ron

    How does that rot affect the structural integrity of the wood?

    That white pock (white pocket) rot is thoroughly thru-and-thru that wood (see the ends as well as the sides).

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Can someone identify this damage?

    Sure it's not beetles? Like a powder post beetle. Especially from Ron's pic some of it looks like actual holes.

    www.aic-chicago.com
    773/844-4AIC
    "The Code is not a ceiling to reach but a floor to work up from"

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Can someone identify this damage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Bibler View Post
    ..its in a doormat state....
    Ron - Sometimes I have to wonder if you're misspelling words on purpose. You're in a league of your own. I salute you!

    "There is no exception to the rule that every rule has an exception." -James Thurber, writer and cartoonist (1894-1961)
    www.ArnoldHomeInspections.com

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Can someone identify this damage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Markus Keller View Post
    Sure it's not beetles? Like a powder post beetle. Especially from Ron's pic some of it looks like actual holes.
    That's what I first thought too, Old House Borers or Power Post Beetles, but Powder Post Beetles just leave a shotgun looking effect (as I recall, been a couple of years since I was a CPCO and kept up on my continuing education).

    But ... white pocket rot also has holes.

    After doing a search of various links to white pocket rot, it looks like white pocket rot, but, during those searches, it made me question the structural strength of the wood, especially so heavily infested.

    Thus, I'm still waiting on that answer.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  8. #8
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can someone identify this damage?

    I have ran into that a 1000 times. it was that way new. part of the tree some times you will see it in 1/2 of the board and the other 1/2 is fine. as long as it holds up to the load its fine. I will probe boards like that to see it they can hold up. in CA. The state holds the point that if the board is 80% intact its OK. Now thats the state of CA. for ya. its a judgment call.
    One could make a big deal out of it. I would not.

    This looks like its all on the outer edges.

    Best

    Ron


  9. #9
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Can someone identify this damage?

    Is that 80% rule by California's Structural Pest Control Board becuase I've never heard of it in any of our state's building codes?
    I also just gotta ask; who makes the percentage call?


    Jerry McCarthy
    Building Code/ Construction Consultant

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Can someone identify this damage?

    Even *if* someone were to make the call that it is 80% intact (which, based on those HOLES indicates it is well under 80%, does that now mean that the size is equivalent to 80%?

    That would make a 2x10 into a 2x8, making it now overspanned.

    And calling anything like those shown 80% would be a better gift that Santy Claus brings everyone. Those boards are probably 80 DECAYED.

    So, back to my question: "How does that rot affect the structural integrity of the wood?"

    I think the answer may be: "Severely".

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Can someone identify this damage?

    White pocket rot eats the lignin of the wood, leaving the cellulose.

    This is from this site: Water Purification Handbook Chapter 29 Cooling tower Wood Maintenance

    (underlining is mine)
    Wood continues to be widely used for the construction of cooling towers. Wood deterioration can shorten the life of a cooling tower from an anticipated 20-25 years to 10 years or less. Cooling tower operation becomes inefficient and repair and replacement costs are excessive.

    In the past, redwood was selected for use in cooling towers because of its high strength-to-weight ratio, availability, ease of use, low cost, and natural resistance to decay. Pressure-treated Douglas fir and similar types of wood are replacing redwood due to cost and availability factors.

    Wood is composed of three main components: cellulose, lignin, and natural extractives. Long fibers of cellulose give wood its strength. Lignin acts as the cementing agent for the cellulose. The extractives contain most of the natural compounds that enable wood to resist decay. Normally, highly colored woods are most durable.

    That's like describing concrete as a mixture of aggregate, cement paste, and water, and "something" removes the cement paste from the cured mix.

    That just cannot be any good for its structural strength.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  12. #12
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
    Ron Bibler Guest

    Default Re: Can someone identify this damage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry McCarthy View Post
    Is that 80% rule by California's Structural Pest Control Board becuase I've never heard of it in any of our state's building codes?
    I also just gotta ask; who makes the percentage call?
    Jerry a lot of things in the structural pest control act are not in the building codes. or a lot of thing in the building codes are not in the structural pest control act. They do work together in an odd way.

    We are not code inspectors. but if we make repairs then we need to get a permit. and bring ever thing up to the AHJ. (Repair in kind). Is the term on our permits. Jerry that 80 % came out some 10 years back or more I can't
    remember. the state sends out these add on the the act from time to time.
    Its all a judgment call on the inspector. For me If I thinks its bad chuck it if its just some thing thats been there from day one note it: Move on.

    JP E.C. Its a judgment call on the inspector if he thinks it needs to be repaired or R&R he can do that or in the case of this type of condition one could just sister a new member along side as this is not an active condition... I did not inspect these timbers. thats why I stated on my original post to have a structure pest inspection completed if applicable.
    From what i see in his photos its not a big deal. As a termite inspector I would just note it and put a photo of it in my report and move on.
    Now doing a probe test on it I may have another take on it.
    But i don't think so at this point... Its just surface damage and its been there from day one. Now should the original contractor used a better board yes... Then we would not be looking at his work and pondering this issue.

    Best

    Ron


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