Thread: World Health Org and Mould

Hello All:

In light of the information contained in the recent release (July, 2009) of the World Health Organization document titled: WHO guidelines for indoor air quality: dampness and mould, I have revised our State of Knowledge web discussion on the epidemiological aspects of the “toxic mould� myth.

Interested Home Inspectors can find the discussion at:

Mould Health Effects: State of knowledge (mold)

Cheers!
CaoimhÃ*n P. Connell
Forensic Industrial Hygienist
Forensic Industrial Hygiene

(The opinions expressed here are exclusively my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect my professional opinion, opinion of my employer, agency, peers, or professional affiliates. The above post is for information only and does not reflect professional advice and is not intended to supercede the professional advice of others.)

AMDG

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CaoimhÃ*n: Will this remain posted at this URL for linking?

CaoimhÃ*n,

On Friday I sent a letter to the Madison County, Florida County Commission regarding mould a a "mold test" which was performed on a county owned building in Madison, Florida, with a discussion and telling them they did not need a "mold inspection" but needed to repair the leaking roof which has been leaking for a number of years now - I provided a link to your site.

Your updated information will be helpful ... if they bother reading it.

Thank you.

Hello A.D.!
Yeah, the URL should be good for a long time.

Jerry!
Kewl! Hopefully they are interested in breaking the ... well ... you know...

CaoimhÃ*n

Caoimhin, is mold harmful or not? This from a link on the home page of the International Association of Certified Indoor Air Consultants (IAC2):

The following is from the recent (July, 2009) World Health Organization's Guidelines for Indoor Air Quality, Dampness and Mold which confirms that mold is a health hazard and thatinspection and measurements can be used to confirm indoor microbial growth (note, we bolded the bold parts):

"The conditions that contribute to the health risk were summarized as follows.

• The prevalence of indoor dampness varies widely within and among countries, continents and climate zones. It is estimated to affect 10–50% of indoor environments in Europe, North America, Australia, India and Japan. In certain settings, such as river valleys and coastal areas, the conditions of dampness are substantially more severe than the national averages for such conditions.
• The amount of water on or in materials is the most important trigger of the growth of microorganisms, including fungi, actinomycetes and other bacteria.
• Microorganisms are ubiquitous. Microbes propagate rapidly wherever water is available. The dust and dirt normally present in most indoor spaces provide sufficient nutrients to support extensive microbial growth. While mould can grow on all materials, selection of appropriate materials can prevent dirt accumulation, moisture penetration and mould growth.
• Microbial growth may result in greater numbers of spores, cell fragments, alergens, mycotoxins, endotoxins, β-glucans and volatile organic compounds in indoor air. The causative agents of adverse health effects have not been identified conclusively, but an excess level of any of these agents in the indoor environment is a potential health hazard.
• Microbial interactions and moisture-related physical and chemical emissions from building materials may also play a role in dampness-related health effects.
• Building standards and regulations with regard to comfort and health do not sufficiently emphasize requirements for preventing and controlling excess moisture and dampness.
• Apart from its entry during occasional events (such as water leaks, heavy rain and flooding), most moisture enters a building in incoming air, including that infiltrating through the building envelope or that resulting from the occupants’ activities.
• Allowing surfaces to become cooler than the surrounding air may result in unwanted condensation. Thermal bridges (such as metal window frames), inadequate insulation and unplanned air pathways, or cold water plumbing and cool parts of air-conditioning units can result in surface temperatures below the dew point of the air and in dampness.

On the basis of this review, the following guidelines were formulated.

• Persistent dampness and microbial growth on interior surfaces and in building structures should be avoided or minimized, as they may lead to adverse health effects.
• Indicators of dampness and microbial growth include the presence of condenation on surfaces or in structures, visible mould, perceived mouldy odour and a history of water damage, leakage or penetration. Thorough inspection and, if necessary, appropriate measurements can be used to confirm indoor moisture and microbial growth.
• As the relations between dampness, microbial exposure and health effects cannot be quantified precisely, no quantitative health-based guideline values or thresholds can be recommended for acceptable levels of contamination with microorganisms. Instead, it is recommended that dampness and mould-related problems be prevented. When they occur, they should be remediated because they increase the risk of hazardous exposure to microbes and chemicals.
• Well-designed, well-constructed, well-maintained building envelopes are critical to the prevention and control of excess moisture and microbial growth, as they prevent thermal bridges and the entry of liquid or vapour-phase water.
• Management of moisture requires proper control of temperatures and ventilation to avoid excess humidity, condensation on surfaces and excess moisture in materials. Ventilation should be distributed effectively throughout spaces, and stagnant air zones should be avoided.
• Building owners are responsible for providing a healthy workplace or living environment free of excess moisture and mould, by ensuring proper building construction and maintenance. The occupants are responsible for managing the use of water, heating, ventilation and appliances in a manner that does not lead to dampness and mould growth. Local recommendations for different climatic regions should be updated to control dampness-mediated microbial growth in buildings and to ensure desirable indoor air quality.
• Dampness and mould may be particularly prevalent in poorly maintained housing for low-income people. Remediation of the conditions that lead to adverse exposure should be given priority to prevent an additional contribution to poor health in populations who are already living with an increased burden of disease.
• The guidelines are intended for worldwide use, to protect public health under various environmental, social and economic conditions, and to support the achievement of optimal indoor air quality. They focus on building characteristics that prevent the occurrence of adverse health effects associated with dampness or mould. The guidelines pertain to various levels of economic development and different climates, cover all relevant population groups and propose feasible approaches for reducing health risks due to dampness and microbibial contamination. Both private and public buildings (e.g. offices and nursing homes) are covered, as dampness and mould are risks everywhere. Settings in which there are particular production processes and hospitals with high-risk patients or sources of exposure to pathogens are not, however, considered.
• While the guidelines provide objectives for indoor air quality management, they do not give instructions for achieving those objectives. The necessary action and indicators depend on local technical conditions, the level of development, human capacities and resources. The guidelines recommended by WHO acknowledge this heterogeneity. In formulating policy targets, governments should consider their local circumstances and select actions that will ensure achievement of their health objectives most effectively."

Good morning, Lisa:

I’ve never heard of the “International Association of Certified Indoor Air Consultants (IAC2)� and they are not recognized by any authority that I am aware of. I believe they may be part of the NACHI pot-bangers who have, based on my previous and lengthy discussions with NACHI folks on their forum, promoted hype, junk science, and disingenuous information regarding moulds.

Cheers!
CaoimhÃ*n P. Connell
Forensic Industrial Hygienist
Forensic Industrial Hygiene

(The opinions expressed here are exclusively my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect my professional opinion, opinion of my employer, agency, peers, or professional affiliates. The above post is for information only and does not reflect professional advice and is not intended to supercede the professional advice of others.)

AMDG

pot-bangers who have, based on my previous and lengthy discussions with NACHI folks on their forum, promoted hype, junk science, and disingenuous information regarding moulds.

CC: I do so enjoy plainspoken folks.

Mold Inspector Training Canada

International Association of Certified Indoor Air Consultants | Courses

Your kidding right? Two day course taught by self certifying individuals?

Your kidding right? Two day course taught by self certifying individuals

RW: Isn't that NACHI's model, self-certification?

Yes you are right A.D. But it doesn't stop there, the Canadian mould guys at the link above are also the ones who have started CanNachi, and the BOD of CanNachi are the directors of Inspect 4U, and the mould course! But it doesn't stop there. The CMI designation handed out in Canada are a fraud. No one has had the police background check done and no one has been audited for the 1000 inspections required to be a CMI. Its all intertwined and all very questionable and all based on money.

More bull
International Association of Certified Indoor Air Consultants | Members

EVERY HOME SHOULD BE TESTED FOR MOLD
According to Dr. John D. Shane, Vice President of Laboratory services of PRO-LAB millions of homes across America have hidden water leaks that are promoting mold growth that can expose homeowners to mold spores. Mold has a potential to cause health problems like allergies, irritation (to lungs, eyes, skin, throat, nose) and are potentially toxic. Inhaling and touching mold spores may cause allergic reactions in sensitive individuals and normally healthy individuals may become sensitive to mold after exposure.
The EPA states that, "It is important to take precautions to limit your exposure to mold and mold spores. Avoid breathing in mold or mold spores". The EPA also recommends that if you suspect you have a hidden mold problem you should consider hiring an experienced professional to avoid exposure to potentially massive doses of mold spores.
Mold damages what it grows on. The longer it grows the more damage it can cause. If there is a mold problem in your home, you should clean up the mold promptly. Mold can be hidden, growing on the water from a hidden leak, and can develop into a potentially large problem if not caught in time.
Testing your home on a regular basis is a prudent way to prevent small problems from growing into a costly and unhealthy situation, and always avoid exposing yourself and others to mold.
To find an IAC2 Certified inspector in your neighborhood visit our....
About Dr. Shane
PRO-LAB

Raymond, you are correct, the video course is 2-days. However, it is for only one of IAC2's certifications. And it is on top of InterNACHI's existing, free, online mold course. And it is on top of all of InterNACHI's requirements. You see, one must be a member of InterNACHI to get IAC2 certified. So to be IAC2 certified, you have to fulfill InterNACHI's requirements. And as you know, InterNACHI has many requirements including

• A 1-hour exam with 120 questions.
• A short course with 26 questions.
• A long quiz with 156 questions.
• A 3-hour course.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
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• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
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• A 100 question exam.
• A 4-hour course.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another 100 question exam.
• Another 4-hour course.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another 65 question exam.
• Another 4-hour course.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another 70 question exam.
• Another 4-hour course.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another 100 question exam.
• Another 2 hour course.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• A 65 question exam.
• Another 8 hour course.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
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• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• A 110 question exam.
• Another 5 hour course.
• A 75 question exam.
• A mini-course.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another mini-course.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another mini-course.
• Another quiz.
• Another mini-course.
• Another quiz.
• Another 8-hour course.
• Another quiz.
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• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another 100 question exam.
• Another 8-hour course.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
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• Another quiz.
• Another 100 question exam.
• Another 12 hour course.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another 120 question exam.
• Another 3 hour course.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
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• Another 20 question exam.
• Another 3 hour course.
• Another 25 question exam.
• Another 12 hour course.
• Another quiz.
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• Another 110 question exam.
• Another 12 hour course
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
• Another 100 question exam.
• Another 8 hour course.
• Another quiz.
• Another quiz.
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• Another 55 question exam.
• Another 12 hour course.
• Another quiz.
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• Another 128 question exam.
• Mock inspections.
• 8 hours of advanced coursework.
• Annual re-testing.
• 24 hours of continuing education each year.
• And many other requirements.

As for the course being approved, this is a home inspector message board. So below I've listed the home inspector agencies and organizations that have already approved our mold course

• Alaska Department of Commerce Community and Economic Development, Division of Corporations, Business and Professional Licensing, Home Inspector Program
• Arkansas Home Inspector Registration Board
• Connecticut Department of Consumer Protection, Home Inspector Licensing Board
• IAC2
• Indiana Real Estate Commission, Home Inspector Licensing Board
• InterNACHI
• Illinois Department of Financial and Professional Regulation, Division of Professional Regulation
• Master Inspector Certification Board
• Mississippi Home Inspector Board
• Oregon Construction Contractors Board
• South Dakota Real Estate Commission
• Tennessee Department of Commerce and Insurance, Division of Regulatory Boards, Home Inspector Licensing Division
• West Virginia Department of Military Affairs and Public Safety, State Fire Marshal's Office
• Texas Real Estate Commission (TREC)
• Wisconsin Department of Regulation
• many other approvals pending.

When it comes to home inspectors offering mold inspections, we are unaware of any mold course that enjoys more accreditations or governmental approvals.

I hope that helps.

Good morning, Lisa:

To be charitable, your post had a small signal to noise ratio. The organization you are trying to trump does not have a good reputation; has, in my opinion, a diminishing reputation, is not recognized by any authority that I am aware of and has not demonstrated any particular competency in the field of indoor air quality investigations or mould assessments.

Cheers!
Caoimhín P. Connell
Forensic Industrial Hygienist
Forensic Industrial Hygiene

(The opinions expressed here are exclusively my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect my professional opinion, opinion of my employer, agency, peers, or professional affiliates. The above post is for information only and does not reflect professional advice and is not intended to supercede the professional advice of others.)

AMDG

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

And as you know, InterNACHI has many requirements including {a bunch of items that were listed in the above post}
.

Hi Lisa,

Since you brought it up, how many INACH members have completed all of the requirements that you have listed?

How long is a person given to complete all of the requirements that you have listed?

How is it verified that the member completes everything that is listed?

What happens if a person fails to complete all of them?

Just curious, as I have never seen a list like that or heard of anyone having to do all of that. I personally know several INACH members (7) that are also members in my ASHI chapter and all they have done is to take the online test in their home and pay their annual dues. They don't even have to report annual CE's, all they do is send in the yearly fee.

The only reason I know this is that last month during our meeting we evaluated all of the known State and National associations that our chapter members held memberships in.

What is another quiz and another quiz and another quiz and another ...... ?

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

What is another quiz and another quiz and another quiz and another ...... ?

RW: They are a quizzical group.

Scott, I am pleased to hear that so many in your local ASHI chapter belong to InterNACHI. I know that many ASHI members take our free, open-to-all, online courses to keep their licenses.

With online courses, be they offered by Yale Law School, InterNACHI, or Harvard Business School, there is never any 100% surefire way to verify that the person taking an online course, quiz or exam is truly the student, just like there isn't any 100% surefire way to verify that a student is paying attention in a classroom setting, and no way to verify that the student will implement what he/she has learned up in an attic on an inspection. Most meritorious E&O insurance claims are the result of inspector complaceny not incompetence anyway.

Each requirement has a different length of time in which to complete. Some need to be completed before applying and some need not be completed until 3 years after joining.

Most of our members complete them much faster than required and also complete all our many optional courses as well. Members have access to a tremendous amount of free education and training.

And each state wants verification in a different way.

Brian has asked me not to link back to InterNACHI's website so I can't easily give you each requirement deadline for course and approval from each state, however I can use your state as an example.

For instance, in your state of Tennessee Scott, InterNACHI has made arrangements with the state of Tennessee to automatically give state credit to inspectors who complete our Tennessee-approved online courses. Our online educational system is tied into the state's and those who complete an approved online course including all the quizzes and pass its final exam with a score of 80 or better have this information fed to the state of Tennessee 5 days later for licensing purposes.

The system will not do this for anyone who simply takes a course and fails to pass its online exam. It only communicates to the state the completion of courses that also include a passing score. Our exams have trillions of versions.

The system between InterNACHI and your state is completely automated.

The state of Tennessee has approved the following InterNACHI online courses and many more are being submitted

• Advanced HVAC course for 21 hours.
• Mold Inspectin Training course for 12 hours.
• 25 Standards Every Inspector Should Know course for 5 hours.
• Inspecting Foundation Walls and Piers course for 3 hours.
• Moisture Intrusion Inspection course for 8 hours.
• Radon Measurement Service Provider course for 12 hours (shsh, don't tell Caoimhin ).
• Wood Destroying Organism Inspection course for 12 hours.
• Roofing Inspection course for 4 hours.
• Elctrical Inspection course for 4 hours.
• Log Home Inspection course for 4 hours.
• Infrared Thermography course for 5 hours.
• Green Building Inspection course for 8 hours.
• Safe Practices for the Home Inspector course for 4 hours.
• Structural course for 4 hours.
• Infrared/Building Science course for 16 hours.
• Plumbing Inspection course for 8 hous.
• Inspcting Water Tanks course fo 4 hours.
• Inspecting Means of Egress course for 4 hours.
• Law and Disorder course for 4 hours.
• Buiding Science course for 16 hours.

Again, Brian asked me not to link back to InterNACHI's site and I respect that, so don't make me type this out for every course and every state. It takes me too long.

On top of this, or perhaps I should say this is "voluntarily on top of" whatever the stae of Tennessee requires. Membership in InteNACHI is voluntary. I believe TN also requires a certain number of pre-licensing classroom courses and the passing of the NHIE (beginner's exam).

Thank you.

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

Scott, I am pleased to hear that so many in your local ASHI chapter belong to InterNACHI. I know that many ASHI members take our free, open-to-all, online courses to keep their licenses.

With online courses, be they offered by Yale Law School, InterNACHI, or Harvard Business School, there is never any 100% surefire way to verify that the person taking an online course, quiz or exam is truly the student, just like there isn't any 100% surefire way to verify that a student is paying attention in a classroom setting, and no way to verify that the student will implement what he/she has learned up in an attic on an inspection. Most meritorious E&O insurance claims are the result of inspector complaceny not incompetence anyway.

Each requirement has a different length of time in which to complete. Some need to be completed before applying and some need not be completed until 3 years after joining.

Most of our members complete them much faster than required and also complete all our many optional courses as well. Members have access to a tremendous amount of free education and training.

And each state wants verification in a different way.

Brian has asked me not to link back to InterNACHI's website so I can't easily give you each requirement deadline for course and approval from each state, however I can use your state as an example.

For instance, in your state of Tennessee Scott, InterNACHI has made arrangements with the state of Tennessee to automatically give state credit to inspectors who complete our Tennessee-approved online courses. Our online educational system is tied into the state's and those who complete an approved online course including all the quizzes and pass its final exam with a score of 80 or better have this information fed to the state of Tennessee 5 days later for licensing purposes.

The system will not do this for anyone who simply takes a course and fails to pass its online exam. It only communicates to the state the completion of courses that also include a passing score. Our exams have trillions of versions.

The system between InterNACHI and your state is completely automated.

I believe the state of Tennessee has approved the following InterNACHI online courses

• Advanced HVAC course for 21 hours.
• Mold Inspectin Training course for 12 hours.
• 25 Standards Every Inspector Should Know course for 5 hours.
• Inspecting Foundation Walls and Piers course for 3 hours.
• Moisture Intrusion Inspection course for 8 hours.
• Radon Measurement Service Provider course for 12 hours (shsh, don't tell Caoimhin ).
• Wood Destroying Organism Inspection course for 12 hours.
• Roofing Inspection course for 4 hours.
• Elctrical Inspection course for 4 hours.
• Log Home Inspection course for 4 hours.
• Infrared Thermography course for 5 hours.
• Green Building Inspection course for 8 hours.
• Safe Practices for the Home Inspector course for 4 hours.
• Structural course for 4 hours.
• Infrared/Building Science course for 16 hours.
• Plumbing Inspection course for 8 hous.
• Inspcting Water Tanks course fo 4 hours.
• Inspecting Means of Egress course for 4 hours.
• Law and Disorder course for 4 hours.
• Buiding Science course for 16 hours.

Again, Brian asked me not to link back to InterNACHI's site and I respect that, so don't make me type this out for course and every state. It takes me too long.

On top of this, or perhaps I should say this is "voluntarily on top of" whatever the stae of Tennessee requires. Membership in InteNACHI is voluntary. I belive TN also requires a certain number of pre-licensing classroom courses and the passing of the NHIE (beginner's exam).

Thank you.

.
And Now Back to Your Regularly Scheduled Program.
.

While TREC may approve the mold course you mention as a general knowledge course (not a high bar for approval) TREC do not regulate mold inspectors in Texas. A separate agency (TDH) both regulates and licenses the activity and education of the mold industry.

As for the course being approved, this is a home inspector message board. So below I've listed the home inspector agencies and organizations that have already approved our mold course
Texas Real Estate Commission (TREC)

Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall

While TREC may approve the mold course you mention as a general knowledge course (not a high bar for approval) TREC do not regulate mold inspectors in Texas. A separate agency (TDH) both regulates and licenses the activity and education of the mold industry.

JL: Almost nothing that the TREC approves for CEUs represents a high bar. Almost everything that represents a high bar for CEUs is not approved by the TREC. In my opinion, it appears to be pay for play there, nothing more.

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

Scott, I am pleased to hear that so many in your local ASHI chapter belong to InterNACHI. I know that many ASHI members take our free, open-to-all, online courses to keep their licenses.

With online courses, be they offered by Yale Law School, InterNACHI, or Harvard Business School, there is never any 100% surefire way to verify that the person taking an online course, quiz or exam is truly the student, just like there isn't any 100% surefire way to verify that a student is paying attention in a classroom setting, and no way to verify that the student will implement what he/she has learned up in an attic on an inspection. Most meritorious E&O insurance claims are the result of inspector complaceny not incompetence anyway.

Each requirement has a different length of time in which to complete. Some need to be completed before applying and some need not be completed until 3 years after joining.

Most of our members complete them much faster than required and also complete all our many optional courses as well. Members have access to a tremendous amount of free education and training.

And each state wants verification in a different way.

Brian has asked me not to link back to InterNACHI's website so I can't easily give you each requirement deadline for course and approval from each state, however I can use your state as an example.

For instance, in your state of Tennessee Scott, InterNACHI has made arrangements with the state of Tennessee to automatically give state credit to inspectors who complete our Tennessee-approved online courses. Our online educational system is tied into the state's and those who complete an approved online course including all the quizzes and pass its final exam with a score of 80 or better have this information fed to the state of Tennessee 5 days later for licensing purposes.

The system will not do this for anyone who simply takes a course and fails to pass its online exam. It only communicates to the state the completion of courses that also include a passing score. Our exams have trillions of versions.

The system between InterNACHI and your state is completely automated.

The state of Tennessee has approved the following InterNACHI online courses and many more are being submitted

• Advanced HVAC course for 21 hours.
• Mold Inspectin Training course for 12 hours.
• 25 Standards Every Inspector Should Know course for 5 hours.
• Inspecting Foundation Walls and Piers course for 3 hours.
• Moisture Intrusion Inspection course for 8 hours.
• Radon Measurement Service Provider course for 12 hours (shsh, don't tell Caoimhin ).
• Wood Destroying Organism Inspection course for 12 hours.
• Roofing Inspection course for 4 hours.
• Elctrical Inspection course for 4 hours.
• Log Home Inspection course for 4 hours.
• Infrared Thermography course for 5 hours.
• Green Building Inspection course for 8 hours.
• Safe Practices for the Home Inspector course for 4 hours.
• Structural course for 4 hours.
• Infrared/Building Science course for 16 hours.
• Plumbing Inspection course for 8 hous.
• Inspcting Water Tanks course fo 4 hours.
• Inspecting Means of Egress course for 4 hours.
• Law and Disorder course for 4 hours.
• Buiding Science course for 16 hours.

Again, Brian asked me not to link back to InterNACHI's site and I respect that, so don't make me type this out for every course and every state. It takes me too long.

On top of this, or perhaps I should say this is "voluntarily on top of" whatever the stae of Tennessee requires. Membership in InteNACHI is voluntary. I believe TN also requires a certain number of pre-licensing classroom courses and the passing of the NHIE (beginner's exam).

Thank you.

Thanks for the PC reply. I'm well aware of what has been approved in TN for CE, actually I have taken a couple myself. All in all they are not all that bad, as the old adage goes you get what you pay for.

Yes, TN does require 85 hours of Pre licensing education. Then successful passage of the NHIE. FYI, the NHIE is not a beginners exam. It is the exam that 24 States have selected for their licensing exam. Granted, it is not an advanced knowledge exam but it does have advanced knowledge questions on it. It is an exam that test a persons knowledge for what a practicing home should know to be a competent home inspector. You have been listening to Nick and Jim Bushart I see

The problem with an advanced knowledge exam would be in the cost. The cost to develop such an exam would be extreame ($200,000+-) and the market that would be willing to pay would be small. Then the exam needs to be updated every 3-5 years as the profession changes not to mention the cost to perform the annual exam maintenance($75,000+ a year cost) . Home inspectors are cheap by nature and very few would be willing to pay just to take an exam to see how well they could do when it would not provide a return on their investment. I think this is why Nick has never had his exam properly validated by a recognized third party as EBPHI has done with the NHIE. He uses the excuse that there is no known company that can psycometriclly validate the INACHI online exam and we all know that is just hogwash. It all boils down to the cost of having it properly done and maintained.

Sorry for the major thread drift...... Might be best to start a new thread on professional exams, I do know a little about the subject. I just can't stand misinformation on a public forum.

You have been listening to Nick and Jim Bushart I see

Its like living next to an airport or train track. Their noise is constant but after a while you tune them both out. Unless of course they are fighting with each other. Then I make popcorn.

Good morning, All:

Just a quick note- Ms. Endza, in her post, reflects a common misconception especially prevalent amongst “certified mould inspectors� (who are usually the most poorly trained practitioners performing mould assessments) that “damp� equals “mould.�

Both the Institutes of Medicine and the World Health Organizations went to great pains to explain that their studies did NOT (NOT) find any causal relationships with mould and adverse health effects.

One more time – Their studies did NOT find ANY causal relationships with mould and adverse health effects.

In her post, Ms. Endza inappropriately excerpted sections out of the WHO document, and presumed the meaning of the excerpts; however it is clear that she has never read the WHO document (or the IOM document) or she lacked the technical understanding of what it contained.

It is important to note that the WHO labored over even including the word “Mould� in the title, and there is considerable insight in the document over just this issue alone.

Finally, WHO also goes to great pains to explain that their comments on association of adverse health effects and presence of mould deal with EXCESSIVE exposures, not normally encountered exposures. Typically, in my experience, in the world of the “certified mould inspector� the words “excessive� and “presence� are synonyms.

Cheers!
CaoimhÃ*n P. Connell
Forensic Industrial Hygienist
Forensic Industrial Hygiene

(The opinions expressed here are exclusively my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect my professional opinion, opinion of my employer, agency, peers, or professional affiliates. The above post is for information only and does not reflect professional advice and is not intended to supercede the professional advice of others.)

AMDG

Perhaps the info is being misread and therefore is purposely being stated otherwise to ensure the continued viability of mould testing and profit by a dubious association on the gullible inspectors who quite frankly believe everything they are told by the leadership and other inspectors in Nachi.

Caoimhin, you say, referring to my post #5

In her post, Ms. Endza inappropriately excerpted sections

How can one "inappropriately excerpt" a summary page by copying it word for word?

You do realize that you are posting on a home inspectors message board and that home inspectors often produce summaries in their inspection reports, don't you?

Wikipedia defines it this way "A summary or recap is a shortened version of the original."

I don't even know how to spell mold or mould, and I certainly didn't "inappropriately excerpt" anything from anything. I simply posted the summary, word for word, from the World Health Organization's report. If you don't like what it says, I suggest you write the World Health Organization rather than publicly reveal that you were unaware of what a summary was.

Summary pages are designed to be excerpted!

Good morning, Lisa:

For a start, you did not copy the verbiage “word-for-word” otherwise, we would have to believe that the WHO misspelled words like “microbial,” “condensation” and “allergen” (which are misspelled in your excerpt). So actually, your summary is yet another example of NACHI sloppiness, not WHO conclusions.

Next, it is very easy to take the material out of context which is precisely what you did. So, although it makes for a long post, let’s go back and see what the WHO really did say -in blue and what they really did not say - in red), with my comments in green added for your benefit. All emphasis in the following are mine.

Executive summary

This document presents World Health Organization (WHO) guidelines for the protection of public health from health risks due to dampness, associated microbial growth and contamination of indoor spaces. ( Notice the WHO did not even mention mould) The guidelines are based on a comprehensive review and evaluation of the accumulated scientific evidence by a multidisciplinary group of experts studying health effects of indoor air pollutants as well as those specialized in identification of the factors that contribute to microbial growth indoors.

Problems of indoor air quality are recognized as important risk factors for human health in both low-income and middle- and high-income countries. Indoor air is also important because populations spend a substantial fraction of time within buildings. In residences, day-care centres, retirement homes and other special environments, indoor air pollution affects population groups that are particularly vulnerable due to their health status or age. Microbial pollution involves hundreds of species of bacteria and fungi that grow indoors when sufficient moisture is available. (Notice that here, WHO defines “microbial” and that it is NOT, as you believe synonymous with “mould.”) Exposure to microbial contaminants is clinically associated with respiratory symptoms, allergies, asthma and immunological reactions. (Notice yet again that WHO identifies microbial and not mould like you want to believe.)

The microbial (not mould) indoor air pollutants of relevance to health are widely heterogeneous, ranging from pollen and spores of plants coming mainly from outdoors, to bacteria, fungi, algae and some protozoa emitted outdoors or indoors. (Here the WHO again alludes to what constitutes microbial air pollution, notice, they did not even mention “mould” do you suppose that is significant?) They also include a wide variety of microbes and allergens that spread from person to person . (The net of etiological agents is spreading wider and wider, and is NOT exclusively mould, as you erroneously like to think). There is strong evidence regarding the hazards posed by several biological agents that pollute indoor air ; however, (OK, Lisa, pay attention to the next bit, but you’re not going to like it…) the WHO working group convened in October 2006 concluded that the individual species of microbes and other biological agents that are responsible for health effects cannot be identified. (To put this into common English: “…the individual species of microbes and other biological agents that are responsible for health effects cannot be identified….” This is due to the fact that people are often exposed to multiple agents simultaneously, to complexities in accurately estimating exposure (Something that NACHI refuses to believe) and to the large numbers of symptoms and health outcomes due to exposure. The exceptions include some common allergies, which can be attributed to specific agents, such as house-dust mites and pets.

The presence of many biological agents in the indoor environment is due to dampness and inadequate ventilation. (Again, we move to the association of damp not mould – Lisa, there is a difference between the word “damp” and mould”) (Now notice that WHO has not even mentioned the word “mould” up to this point, and the next sentence is the first time it is used, and it is used EXCLUSIVELY in the context of “excessive moisture”) Excess moisture on almost all indoor materials leads to growth of microbes, such as mould, fungi and bacteria, which subsequently emit spores, cells, fragments and volatile organic compounds into indoor air. (Here the WHO begins to develop the foundation for degrees of presence. That is, there mere presence of moisture does not constitute excessive damp, any more than the mere presence of mould constitutes excessive mould). Moreover, dampness initiates chemical or biological degradation of materials, which also pollutes indoor air. (Here the WHO further broadens the etiological net by explaining that excessive damp is associated with chemical agents as well as biological agents, further increasing the number of possible contaminants, well beyond mould, that are seen to be associating damp conditions with some adverse health effects.) Dampness (NOT mould) has therefore been suggested to be a strong, consistent indicator of risk of asthma and respiratory symptoms (e.g. cough and wheeze). The health risks of biological contaminants of indoor air could thus be addressed by considering dampness (not “mould”) as the risk indicator. (Lisa- are you starting to understand the situation a little better? Perhaps if you took a little more time to read what the document ACTUALLY says, instead of presuming to know what the document says, you would have a better understanding of what the World Health Organization is trying to tell you).

Health hazards result from a complex chain of events that link penetration of water indoors, excessive moisture to biological growth, physical and chemical degradation, and emission of hazardous biological and chemical agents. (ooops… the World Health Organization forgot to mention “mould” again, Lisa. Do you suppose that is significant?) The review of scientific evidence that supports these guidelines follows this sequence of events. The issues related to building dampness (NOT mould) and its effect on indoor exposure to biological (remember, Bacteria, protozoans, and as explained later in the document, WHO even expands the net ever broader by including termites and dust mites into the mix). and non-biological pollutants (non-mould related chemicals) are summarized in Chapter 2, which also addresses approaches to exposure assessment. An important determinant of dampness and biological growth in indoor spaces is ventilation, and this issue is discussed in Chapter 3. The evidence for the health effects of indoor exposure is presented in Chapter 4, based on a review of epidemiological (epidemiological studies don’t bode well for your arguments, since the more one understands epidemiological practices, the more one realizes that the mould issue vaporizes into thin wisps of NACHI hysteria). studies and of clinical and toxicological (This creates some problems for the NACHI mindset, since at the heart of toxicology is the concept of a dose response curve; something that the NACHI leadership stands alone in it denial through ignorance.) research on the health effects of dampness and mould. The results of the epidemiological and toxicological studies are summarized in the appendices.

The background material for the review was prepared by invited experts and discussed at a WHO working group meeting, convened in Bonn, Germany, 17– 18 October 2007. The conclusions of the working group discussion are presented in Chapter 5 and are reproduced in this executive summary, as follows.

• Sufficient epidemiological evidence is available from studies conducted in different countries and under different climatic conditions to show that the occupants of damp or mouldy buildings, both houses and public buildings, are at increased risk of respiratory symptoms, respiratory infections and exacerbation of asthma. Some evidence suggests increased risks of allergic rhinitis and asthma (association with dampness ) . Although few intervention studies were available, their results show that remediation of dampness (NOT mould) can reduce adverse health outcomes.
  
• There is clinical evidence that exposure to mould and other dampness-related microbial agents increases the risks of rare conditions, such as hypersensitivity pneumonitis, allergic alveolitis, chronic rhinosinusitis and allergic fungal sinusitis.
  
• Toxicological evidence obtained in vivo and in vitro supports these findings, showing the occurrence of diverse inflammatory and toxic responses after exposure to microorganisms isolated from damp buildings, including their spores, metabolites and components. (Notice the WHO did NOT single out mould).
  
• While groups such as atopic and allergic people are particularly susceptible to biological (remember, Lisa, this includes everything from termites to mites, Bacteria to protozoans) and chemical agents in damp indoor environments, adverse health effects have also been found in nonatopic populations.
  
• The increasing prevalencessic of asthma and allergies in many countries increase the number of people susceptible to the effects of dampness and mould in buildings.

The conditions that contribute to the health risk were summarized as follows.

• The prevalence of indoor dampness (NOT mould) varies widely within and among countries, continents and climate zones. It is estimated to affect 10–50% of indoor environments in Europe, North America, Australia, India and Japan. In certain settings, such as river valleys and coastal areas, the conditions of dampness (NOT mould) are substantially more severe than the national averages for such conditions.
  
• The amount (Uh-oh, Lisa, that qualification of quantification thing again…) of water on or in materials is the most important trigger of the growth of microorganisms, including fungi, actinomycetes and other bacteria.
  
• Microorganisms are ubiquitous. Microbes propagate rapidly wherever water is available. The dust and dirt normally present in most indoor spaces provide sufficient nutrients to support extensive microbial growth. While mould can grow on all materials, selection of appropriate materials can prevent dirt accumulation, moisture penetration and mould growth.
  
• Microbial growth may result in greater numbers of spores, cell fragments, allergens, mycotoxins, endotoxins, ß-glucans and volatile organic compounds in indoor air. (OK, Lisa, you’re not going to like this next part, maybe you should just skip this, OK?) The causative agents of adverse health effects have not been identified conclusively, but an excess level of any of these agents in the indoor environment is a potential health hazard.
  
• Microbial interactions and moisture-related physical and chemical emissions from building materials may also play a role in dampness-related health effects.
  
• Building standards and regulations with regard to comfort and health do not sufficiently emphasize requirements for preventing and controlling excess moisture and dampness .
  
• Apart from its entry during occasional events (such as water leaks, heavy rain and flooding), most moisture enters a building in incoming air, including that infiltrating through the building envelope or that resulting from the occupants’ activities.
  
• Allowing surfaces to become cooler than the surrounding air may result in unwanted condensation. Thermal bridges (such as metal window frames), inadequate insulation and unplanned air pathways, or cold water plumbing and cool parts of air-conditioning units can result in surface temperatures below the dew point of the air and in dampness.

On the basis of this review, the following guidelines were formulated.

• Persistent dampness and microbial growth on interior surfaces and in building structures should be avoided or minimized , as they may lead to adverse health effects. (Note here there is no statement about “removal.” As explained later in the document, leaving even mould contaminated building materials in place is part of the decision making process).
  
• Indicators of dampness and microbial growth include the presence of condensation on surfaces or in structures, visible mould, perceived mouldy odour and a history of water damage, leakage or penetration. (Lisa, do you think it was significant that the WHO specifically used the qualifier “visible?” If you read the document, you will see that the use of the word “visible” is very significant, and dispels the NACHI hyperbole of performing (useless) sampling) Thorough inspection and, if necessary, appropriate measurements can be used to confirm indoor moisture and microbial growth.
  
• As the relations between dampness, microbial exposure and health effects cannot be quantified precisely, no quantitative health-based guideline values or thresholds can be recommended for acceptable levels of contamination with microorganisms. Instead, it is recommended that dampness and mould-related problems be prevented. When they occur, they should be remediated because they increase the risk of hazardous exposure to microbes and chemicals.
  
• Well-designed, well-constructed, well-maintained building envelopes are critical to the prevention and control of excess moisture and microbial growth, as they prevent thermal bridges and the entry of liquid or vapour-phase water. Management of moisture (NOT mould) requires proper control of temperatures and ventilation to avoid excess humidity, condensation on surfaces and excess moisture (NOT mould) in materials. Ventilation should be distributed effectively throughout spaces, and stagnant air zones should be avoided.
  
• Building owners are responsible for providing a healthy workplace or living environment free of excess moisture and mould, by ensuring proper building construction and maintenance. The occupants are responsible for managing the use of water, heating, ventilation and appliances in a manner that does not lead to dampness and mould growth . (Lisa, do you think that perhaps, the persistent inclusion of the work “growth” in the document was significant?) Local recommendations for different climatic regions should be updated to control dampness-mediated microbial growth in buildings and to ensure desirable indoor air quality.
  
• Dampness and mould may be particularly prevalent in poorly maintained housing for low-income people. Remediation of the conditions that lead to adverse exposure (NOT just any exposure) should be given priority to prevent an additional contribution to poor health in populations who are already living with an increased burden of disease.

The guidelines are intended for worldwide use, to protect public health under various environmental, social and economic conditions, and to support the achievement of optimal indoor air quality. They focus on building characteristics that prevent the occurrence of adverse health effects associated with dampness or mould. The guidelines pertain to various levels of economic development and different climates, cover all relevant population groups and propose feasible approaches for reducing health risks due to dampness and microbial contamination. (Remember Lisa, this includes moulds, Bacteria, protozoans, etc), and not just mould as you like to think). Both private and public buildings (e.g. offices and nursing homes) are covered, as dampness and mould are risks everywhere. Settings in which there are particular production processes and hospitals with high-risk patients or sources of exposure to pathogens are not, however, considered.

While the guidelines provide objectives for indoor air quality management, they do not give instructions for achieving those objectives. The necessary action and indicators depend on local technical conditions, the level of development, human capacities and resources. The guidelines recommended by WHO acknowledge this heterogeneity. In formulating policy targets, governments should consider their local circumstances and select actions that will ensure achievement of their health objectives most effectively.

End of excerpt.

There we are, Lisa. Thank you for allowing me to put the summary back into context. Perhaps now you should go and actually READ the entire document, wherein you will find more and more and more information that the NACHI leadership continues to deny. It appears to me, Lisa, that the more you post, representing NACHI, the more you diminish the credibility of NACHI.

Cheers!
Caoimhín P. Connell
Forensic Industrial Hygienist
Forensic Industrial Hygiene

(The opinions expressed here are exclusively my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect my professional opinion, opinion of my employer, agency, peers, or professional affiliates. The above post is for information only and does not reflect professional advice and is not intended to supercede the professional advice of others.)

AMDG

For a start, you did not copy the verbiage “word-for-word� otherwise, we would have to believe that the WHO misspelled words like “microbial,� “condensation� and “allergen� (which are misspelled in your excerpt). So actually, your summary is yet another example of NACHI sloppiness, not WHO conclusions.

Not true. I copied and pasted directly from the report using computer key commands. The summary is short, sweet, and speaks for itself. If you don't like what the World Health Organization says or how they spell certain words, I suggest you write them letter.

Good Afternoon, Lisa:

Actually I LOVE what the WHO says, since they and I are in agreement and support the position I have maintained for years; and the WHO argues against what the NACHI pot-bangers are trying to sell.

I think that if you actually read and understood what the WHO said, you would realize that the NACHI position is contrary to WHO, the EPA, the CDC the IOM, and virtually every legitimate scientist in the field.

Like I said before, perhaps you should actually try READING the WHO document (and the IOM study while you're at it).

Cheers!
CaoimhÃ*n P. Connell
Forensic Industrial Hygienist
Forensic Industrial Hygiene

(The opinions expressed here are exclusively my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect my professional opinion, opinion of my employer, agency, peers, or professional affiliates. The above post is for information only and does not reflect professional advice and is not intended to supercede the professional advice of others.)

AMDG

I don't know what a "pot-banger" is and about the only (99.2% of our income) thing we "sell" is memberships. Our monster 235,000 page website gets 260 million hits a year without so much as a banner ad, so I really don't know what you are referring to. Is it a product of some kind?

As for this InterNACHI "position" you speak of. I assume you mean this

Can mold cause health problems?

Molds are usually not a problem indoors, unless mold spores land on a wet or damp spot and begin growing. Molds have the potential to cause health problems. Molds produce allergens (substances that can cause allergic reactions), irritants, and in some cases, potentially toxic substances (mycotoxins). Inhaling or touching mold or mold spores may cause allergic reactions in sensitive individuals. Allergic responses include hay fever-type symptoms, such as sneezing, runny nose, red eyes, and skin rash (dermatitis). Allergic reactions to mold are common. They can be immediate or delayed. Molds can also cause asthma attacks in people with asthma who are allergic to mold. In addition, mold exposure can irritate the eyes, skin, nose, throat, and lungs of both mold-allergic and non-allergic people. Symptoms other than the allergic and irritant types are not commonly reported as a result of inhaling mold. Research on mold and health effects is ongoing. This brochure provides a brief overview; it does not describe all potential health effects related to mold exposure. For more detailed information consult a health professional. You may also wish to consult your state or local health department.

Hello Lisa:

Question:
As for this InterNACHI "position" you speak of. I assume you mean this...

Response:
Nope. Once again you assume incorrectly.

Do you always avoid posting relevant responses by posting irrelevant responses? It seems that I fairly directly addressed the issues and then you just walked away from the topic. Hmmm...

Cheers!
CaoimhÃ*n P. Connell
Forensic Industrial Hygienist
Forensic Industrial Hygiene

(The opinions expressed here are exclusively my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect my professional opinion, opinion of my employer, agency, peers, or professional affiliates. The above post is for information only and does not reflect professional advice and is not intended to supercede the professional advice of others.)

AMDG

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

I don't know what a "pot-banger" is and about the only (99.2% of our income) thing we "sell" is memberships. Our monster 235,000 page website gets 260 million hits a year without so much as a banner ad, so I really don't know what you are referring to. Is it a product of some kind?

Correction, membership is free if you ask for it.

How does a 235,000 website that gets 260 million hits a year fit into the equation of the WHO and Mould?

Inquiring minds want to know?

Ray, Caoimhin said something about InterNACHI "pot-bangers" (I don't know what he means by "pot-bangers") "selling" something (I don't know what he thinks we sell, we don't even have ads on our site) and something about "InterNACHI's position" (I'm InterNACHI's Communication Director and am quite sure we don't have a "position" on the matter).

Now in his most recent post he makes reference this "InterNACHI position" again, but won't tell us where or what it is. He's unable to because it doesn't exist.

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

Ray, Caoimhin said something about InterNACHI "pot-bangers" (I don't know what he means by "pot-bangers") "selling" something (I don't know what he thinks we sell, we don't even have ads on our site) and something about "InterNACHI's position" (I'm InterNACHI's Communication Director and am quite sure we don't have a "position" on the matter).

Now in his most recent post he makes reference this "position" again, but won't tell us where or what it is. He's unable to because it doesn't exist.

.
Lisa,

Mr. Connell,

Has a Position ( might want to click on his web link.)

His Position will Stand in a Court of Law, ( will yours? )
* don't think so.

InterNachi Sells Memberships.
* Duh.

Just Keep Banging on that Pot.
.

Caoimhin says in post #28

the InterNACHI position is contrary to

As Communications Director for InterNACHI, I must ask you a stupid question. Where is this position of InterNACHI's you keep referring to? Can you post a live link to this mysterious InterNACHI position please. I can't find it.

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

As Communications Director for InterNACHI, I must ask you a stupid question. Where is this position of InterNACHI's you keep referring to?

.
Lisa,
Please Try to keep up.
.
Your Post # 30.
the one you made.

That one.
* are you going to delete it?
.

Bill says

Lisa,
Please Try to keep up.
.
Your Post # 30.
the one you made.

That one.
* are you going to delete it?

Bill, I never claimed the position in #30 was InterNACHI's. I was only confirming with Caoihmin if that was the position he was referring to as InterNACHI's.

I confess, I played a little trick on him. I allowed him, and apparently you, to assume it was an InterNACHI quote and InterNACHI's position. I actually copied it from the EPA site. It is word for word from U.S. Environmental Protection Agency

Here it is again

Can mold cause health problems?
Molds are usually not a problem indoors, unless mold spores land on a wet or damp spot and begin growing. Molds have the potential to cause health problems. Molds produce allergens (substances that can cause allergic reactions), irritants, and in some cases, potentially toxic substances (mycotoxins). Inhaling or touching mold or mold spores may cause allergic reactions in sensitive individuals. Allergic responses include hay fever-type symptoms, such as sneezing, runny nose, red eyes, and skin rash (dermatitis). Allergic reactions to mold are common. They can be immediate or delayed. Molds can also cause asthma attacks in people with asthma who are allergic to mold. In addition, mold exposure can irritate the eyes, skin, nose, throat, and lungs of both mold-allergic and non-allergic people. Symptoms other than the allergic and irritant types are not commonly reported as a result of inhaling mold. Research on mold and health effects is ongoing. This brochure provides a brief overview; it does not describe all potential health effects related to mold exposure. For more detailed information consult a health professional. You may also wish to consult your state or local health department.

And no, I'm not going to delete EPA's position.

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

Bill says

Bill, I never claimed the position in #30 was InterNACHI's. I was only confirming with Caoihmin if that was the position he was referring to as InterNACHI's.

I confess, I played a little trick on him. I allowed him, and apparently you, to assume it was an InterNACHI quote and InterNACHI's position. I actually copied it from the EPA site. It is word for word from U.S. Environmental Protection Agency

Here it is again



And no, I'm not going to delete EPA's position.

.
Same Is Posted on your sites.
.
You've Played a Lot of Tricks on the Public.
.
And you Don't Sell Anything.
* it's all on what your definition of IS, IS
.

.

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

Correction, membership is free if you ask for it.

How does a 235,000 website that gets 260 million hits a year fit into the equation of the WHO and Mould?

Inquiring minds want to know?

Now Ray.
You gotta quit asking such tough questions.

I'm still waiting to see an answer to Scott P's question , [on another topic, with more BS from nickos puppet,] about how many inspectors belong to that org that have more than 5 years experience.

Bump for The internachi Mold Waiver from their site.
.

I'm still waiting to see an answer to Scott P's question about how many inspectors belong to that org that have more than 5 years experience.

A certain number of years in the business is not a requirement to join either ASHI or InterNACHI. InterNACHI doesn't ask any applicant how many years he/she has been inspecting when they join.

I believe you are confusing InterNACHI with the Master Inspector Certification Board which requires actual proof that the inspector has been in business at least 3 years. The proof has to be provided to the Board to be awarded the Master Inspector Certification professional designation. "Certified Master Inspector" is not just a trademark. It is a Registered Federal Certification, the only one in the inspection industry.

Here are the acceptable forms of proof

a. a copy of your government-issued inspector's license demonstrating that you were an inspector as of three or more years ago; or

b. s copy of your business license demonstrating that you were an inspector as of three or more years ago; or

c. evidence that demonstrates that you were a member of an inspection association as of three or more years ago; or

d. a copy of the first page of your inspection business federal tax return from three or more years ago; or

e. a copy of a DBA document demonstrating that you were an inspector as of three or more years ago; or

f. three signed letters from business people or past clients stating that you were an inspector as of three or more years ago.

I copied this from the Master Inspector Ceritification Board's site. You also have to have 1,000 inspections or CE hours under your belt as well. I do not work for the Board. Happy to research it for you though.

Correction

I believe you are confusing InterNACHI with the Master Inspector Certification Board which requires actual proof that the inspector has been in business at least 3 years. The proof has to be provided to the Board to be awarded the Master Inspector Certification professional designation. "Certified Master Inspector" is not just a trademark. It is a Registered Federal Certification, the only one in the inspection industry.

The Master Inspection Certification designation is a fraud. One need look no further than the make up of the board which is almost entirely made up of vendors and/or Nachi staff.

Contact Us - Certified Master Inspector

There have been no police background checks done and no verification by audit of the affadavits submitted.

People were given their CMI by Tricky Nick and his ship of fools with no questions asked! So much for thorougness and authenticity of the CMI. One must ask whoes pockets got lined with the membership fees?

As to CMI trademark big deal, tricky Nicky was trying to play that off as some form of Federal government endorsement, which it is not. Anyone can use the acronym CMI as long as it not used in full as Certified Master Inspector as it relates to home inspections only.

As communications director please ensure your communications are factual not the hype Nachi has become famous for.

And more bull
We mean it. Stop! - Certified Master Inspector

Good morning, Billy:

To begin with, Ms. Endza may think she’s very clever with her “tricks,” however, as usual, she not only made erroneous assumptions, she also apparently does not bother to read responses or understand the written word particularly well.

Ms. Endza says:
I confess, I played a little trick on him. I allowed him, and apparently you, to assume it was an InterNACHI quote…

Apparently she did not read my response where I quite succinctly responded that I did NOT think that was NACHI’s position on moulds. Ms. Endza’s lack of communication skills is particularly shocking in light of the fact that she identifies herself as a “Communications Director.” The overall level of competency truly begs credibility.

Speaking of begging credibility, let’s look at some other NACHI nonsense. I looked at the NACHI “mould waiver” that was linked, and I confirmed that it was an actual NACHI document by downloading the document from a NACHI site (Home Inspector - InterNACHI: home inspection/inspector.

I think the document nicely demonstrates the general lack of technical competency in mould related issues that I have come to associate with NACHI’s leadership.

The statement in the NACHI waiver “There is no way to determine if there is mold and if it is a health concern without testing.” is particularly staggeringly incompetent and contains two particularly incompetent components. Let’s look at the two specific clauses in the statement to better understand NACHI’s lack of understanding in mould related issues.

The NACHI statement contains two technically incompetent clauses:

“There is no way to determine if there is mold without testing”
“There is no way to determine if it is a health concern without testing.”

In the first clause NACHI maintains that unless “testing” is performed there is no way to determine if there is mould. While this may very well be true if one is a NACHI inspector, this is absolutely untrue if one is a marginally intelligent human with at least some normal cognizance of their existence.

While, apparently, a NACHI inspector is incapable of determining the presence of mould without testing, I would think that probably close to 98% of all Western European, American, Latin, African, Asian, Caucasian, Middle East, and Pacific Islanders and Australians can probably look at the wall in the following photograph and tell you there is mould present without testing. (For you NACHI guys, it's the stuff on the left - the stuff on the right is wallpaper pattern).



Apparently, however, according to the NACHI mould waiver, NACHI home inspectors are so poorly trained, and outside this sentient power, they would have to “test” the bathroom in order to determine if mould is present since according to their waiver: “There is no way to determine if there is mold and if it is a health concern without testing.”

I find it a sad commentary on the technical abilities of the NACHI membership that their leadership believes that without performing a “test” the NACHI leadership believes their membership lacks the ability to discern the difference between wallpaper (on the right) and mould (on the left).

I can just see the exchange now during an Home Inspection of the house in the photograph in the presence of a NACHI inspector:

Mrs. Home Buyer:
OH MY GAWD! Look at that mould!

NACHI Home Inspector:
WHERE?!

Mrs. Home Buyer:
What do you mean “Where?” Right there on the bathroom wall! Good Lord, look at that!

NACHI Home Inspector:
I’m sorry Ma’am, I don’t know what you’re talking about.

Mrs. Home Buyer:
The mould. Look at that mould. All over that wall! It looks like it covers about 12 square feet for goodness sake! Right there in front of you… all that black and red and green fluffy nasty smelling stuff covering the wall! Right in front of you!

NACHI Home Inspector:
(Producing the famous NACHI “Waiver of Mold Testing and Release”) I’m sorry Ma’am, I really don’t know what you’re talking about. There is no way to determine if there is mold and if it is a health concern without testing. And so unless you allow me to test, I really don’t know if this bathroom has mould or not. Now… let’s go look at your electrical system…

Hmm… That fills me with confidence on the meaning of NACHI certification.

Now, imagine the same conversation with member of this board, or an Industrial Hygienist:

Mrs. Home Buyer:
OH MY GAWD! Look at that mould!

Industrial Hygienist:
YIKES! That’s nasty! You've got a little Pen/Asp growing on the top there with some Cladosporia interspersed with Stachybotrys on the bottom.

Mrs. Home Buyer:
Aren’t you going to test it?

Industrial Hygienist:
No Ma’am, sorry, I’m not a NACHI home inspector; like you, I already know it’s mould.

Now, let’s look at the second clause.

“There is no way to determine if it is a health concern without testing.”

Therefore, the corollary is that NACHI has become the ONLY organization on the planet Earth that is capable of determining if the moulds that is present is an health concern. So now, NACHI, who is apparently incapable of looking at mould, and knowing it’s mould, suddenly has the technical competency to enter the realm of toxicology, pathophysiology and health and is capable of performing tests for homeowners to determine if it’s an HEALTH CONCERN!

Please, Ms. Endza, share with the world this amazing new NACHI technology, available exclusively to NACHI that is capable of determining if it’s an health concern. Is the NACHI leadership in the running for the Nobel Prize in Medicine for the development of this AMAZING new testing protocol that is used (apparently exclusively by NACHI Home Inspectors) that is capable of determining if the mould is an health concern?

The more NACHI speaks, the sillier and sillier it looks. For those friends of mine who are NACHI members, I happen to KNOW you are smarter than that. But I’m beginning to wonder why you are still members of an organization with such patently silly positions.

Cheers!
Caoimhín P. Connell
Forensic Industrial Hygienist
Forensic Industrial Hygiene

(The opinions expressed here are exclusively my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect my professional opinion, opinion of my employer, agency, peers, or professional affiliates. The above post is for information only and does not reflect professional advice and is not intended to supercede the professional advice of others.)

AMDG

Originally Posted by Dan Harris

Now Ray.
You gotta quit asking such tough questions.

I'm still waiting to see an answer to Scott P's question , [on another topic, with more BS from nickos puppet,] about how many inspectors belong to that org that have more than 5 years experience.

My questions about INACHI are seldom answered with a straightforward answer. Most of the time they are answered with another question. After 10 or so years, ya kind of expect it to be that way....

A better question might be this: How many INACHI members have held a membership for more than 3 years; 5 years?

And then that brings up this question:
What is the actual number of dues paying members in INACHI?

I bet that we will not see an honest response to the above questions, or it will be a reply that avoids an answer.

Scott

Honesty is not Nachi's forte.

I have proven conclusively as to its very questionable business practices. No one need look any further than the way the ESOP is structured and operated. Its all run by you know who and anyone who thinks otherwise is naive.

Its also rather interesting that the communications director is here bouncing off Nachi propaganda and having it corrected by Caoimhín who very frankly has been a breath of fresh air in revealing the true facts.

Thanks Caoimhin for providing all the great info you do! Its always a great read!

Posted by request without opinion.

Dear Mr. Connell,

With your tremendous degree of wisdom, education and communication skill – how is it possible that you have allowed your personal prejudices to cloud your judgment to such a degree that you would create a non-entity upon which to base your scathing argument.
There is no such thing, Mr. Connell, as what you refer to as “a NACHI inspector”.

“NACHI” is not an employer of home inspectors. Members of “NACHI” (more specifically, InterNACHI) come from various national and state associations, international geographical areas, years of experience ranging from twenty five minutes to twenty five years, various educational backgrounds and various levels of technical training and experiences. Not all members of “NACHI” use the same contract, same SOP or same Code of Ethics since they can belong to other organizations, societies and associations.

Building your argument on the premise that there exists something called a “NACHI inspector” places the rest of your argument on a very weak foundation.

I have followed your posts and have found you to be consistently factual when your opinions and judgment have not been clouded with anger or prejudice. Is this a temporary blemish on your otherwise impressive reputation or can we expect you to perpetuate this myth to support others that may come along as a result?

Jim Bushart

“NACHI� is not an employer of home inspectors. Members of “NACHI� (more specifically, InterNACHI) come from various national and state associations, international geographical areas, years of experience ranging from twenty five minutes to twenty five years, various educational backgrounds and various levels of technical training and experiences. Not all members of “NACHI� use the same contract, same SOP or same Code of Ethics since they can belong to other organizations, societies and associations.

How does someone with 25 minutes of experience count as being qualified?

If this was a statement from Bushart, I need say no more given that the man has about 25 minutes worth of experience and his propensity to talk as if experienced is his most revealing feature!

Now find me a Nachi member with 25 years experience.

Hi Michael:

Thanks for the comments by Mr. Bushart. I'm not sure where they came from, but allow me to translate his argument: “Look over there! Look over there! Don’t watch my hands! Quick, LOOK!�

Notice that he was otherwise entirely incapable of addressing the issue.

As for insinuating that I invented the use of the term “NACHI Home Inspector�? That’s funny!

You can pass on the following short list on to Mr. Bushart, and tell him if he would like more, I could probably find a few hundred:

“Nachi Home Inspector is proudly powered… (from nachihomeinspector.com)

“Be sure to choose a NACHI home inspector.�
(from www .ramhomeinspections. com)

Be sure to choose a NACHI home inspector. (www .theallamericanhomeinspectors. com/)

I am a Certified NACHI Home Inspector and I am…
www .jwinspect. com/

Be sure to choose a NACHI home inspector.
www .helmhomeinspections. com/

Be sure to choose a NACHI home inspector.
www .hbiinspect. com/

Be sure to choose a NACHI home inspector.
www .beesure. net/

You are then a Certified Qualified NACHI Home Inspector. ...
www .nachi. org.za/info.html

Be sure to choose a NACHI home inspector.
www .vsihomeinspections. com/

Be sure to choose a NACHI home inspector
www .utah-homeinspectors. com/

Be sure to choose a NACHI home inspector
www .cproinspect .com/

WHY HIRE A NACHI HOME INSPECTOR?
fredsprohomeinspections .com/

In MAINE be sure to choose a NACHI home inspector.
www .elmcityhomeinspection .com/

Your local NACHI home inspector will I n know the legal requirements for ...
www .slideshare .net/fullcircle/building-bridges/

As I say, the more NACHI speaks, the more ridiculous it appears. If I was a technically competent home inspector, who was a member of NACHI, I would generally be very embarrassed of the association with its leadership.

Cheers!
CaoimhÃ*n P. Connell
Forensic Industrial Hygienist
Forensic Industrial Hygiene

(The opinions expressed here are exclusively my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect my professional opinion, opinion of my employer, agency, peers, or professional affiliates. The above post is for information only and does not reflect professional advice and is not intended to supercede the professional advice of others.)

AMDG

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

How does someone with 25 minutes of experience count as being qualified?

If this was a statement from Bushart, I need say no more given that the man has about 25 minutes worth of experience and his propensity to talk as if experienced is his most revealing feature!

Now find me a NACHI member with 25 years experience.

Uh hum!

Dan Bowers comes to mind.

Wasn't he an ASHI Board Member?

Thank you for your reply Mr. Connell.

I will pass along your comments to Mr. Bushart.

I do see a flaw in your rebuttal however.

Most of what you posted regarding hiring a NACHI Home Inspector could also be said about every other Home Inspection Association and its members.

They use similar marketing statements to promote their membership.

Many ASHI and NAHI members use similar statements and offer similar services.

Originally Posted by Michael Larson

Thank you for your reply Mr. Connell.

I will pass along your comments to Mr. Bushart.

I do see a flaw in your rebuttal however.

Most of what you posted regarding hiring a NACHI Home Inspector could also be said about every other Home Inspection Association and its members.

They use similar marketing statements to promote their membership.

Many ASHI and NAHI members use similar statements and offer similar services.

There is a big difference between Nachi entry and those of ASHI, and NAHI. All home inspection associations are not created equally. Further unlike ASHI and NAHI, Nachi is not a democratic association. It is a private marketing club.

As for Bushart why are you the messenger. Bushart is a big boy, so he would like to have us believe but obviously he is too timid to fight his own battles.

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

.

As for Bushart why are you the messenger. Bushart is a big boy, so he would like to have us believe but obviously he is too timid to fight his own battles.

.
Might have worn his welcome out ( from all the Alias Sign In's. )
* Harvey The Hump comes to mind.
.

Caoihmin, you are incorrect again.

The document you now referencing isn't InterNACHI's position statement on mold either.

It is suggested waiver language. One of our members was sued for finding mold and not testing for it, even though he did not offer mold testing services and was not required to under our SOP.

The waiver is designed to offer protection to our members who use it in certain conditions. Whether testing is scientifically warranted or not, it fulfills its purpose of preventing a client from later complaining that we didn't recommend testing by having the client waive testing after it is strongly recommended.

A client who is told to test yet instructs the inspector not to test can't complain later.

Legally, it would be disastrous for our members to do the reverse, that being to tell the client who wants the inspector to test that there is no need to test. I'm sure you understand why.

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

Legally, it would be disastrous for our members to do the reverse, that being to tell the client who wants the inspector to test that there is no need to test. I'm sure you understand why.

Why not say: "I'm not qualified to properly evaluate your home for mould. You will need to hire an industrial hygienist or similar specialist who specializes in residental mould evaluations".

Seems like this would solve just about all problems when it comes to an inspectors liability and mould.

Originally Posted by Scott Patterson

.
Why not say: "I'm not qualified to properly evaluate your home for mould. .

.
But I'm IAC2 Mold Certified.
.
Become IAC2 Mold Certified - InterNACHI

Lisa wrote:

The document you now referencing isn't InterNACHI's position statement on mold either.

What is Nachi's position on mould?

Originally Posted by Scott Patterson

Why not say: "I'm not qualified to properly evaluate your home for mould. You will need to hire an industrial hygienist or similar specialist who specializes in residental mould evaluations".

Seems like this would solve just about all problems when it comes to an inspectors liability and mould.

By Calif. state Law all Termite/WDO Reports must have a statement like that on there reports.

Its bad enough that we need to say what we insp. But we also what we do not insp.

Best

Ron

Because the mold test results aren't enough.

A mold issue must be looked at holistically. One must understand roof leaks, downspouts, ventilation, gutters, stucco, EIFS, sump pumps, plumbing leaks, drywall, condensation, drainage, foundations, and most everything else about a home to do a proper mold inspection. The mold test portion of a mold inspection is pretty simple.

Home inspectors are particularly suited for this. That is why IAC2 requires membership in InterNACHI first.

Non-home inspectors have no business performing mold tests.

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

Because the mold test results aren't enough.

A mold issue must be looked at holistically. One must understand roof leaks, downspouts, ventilation, gutters, stucco, EIFS, sump pumps, plumbing leaks, drywall, condensation, drainage, foundations, and most everything else about a home to do a proper mold inspection.

Home inspectors are particularly suited for this. That is why IAC2 requires membership in InterNACHI first.

Non-home inspectors have no business performing mold tests.

Lisa I have been inspecting for 30 plus years. I just love to say that

The test information you are going to get back from this type of loose residential mould evaluation would condemn just about every home in the US.

There is not one home in my area north of San Francisco that has Dry soil under it. This moisture is enough to set off any air test and give A False Positive. Every home has some WDO or fungus/mould in it. This is a fact.
now if this correct we as a people should all be dead But look around you every one is just fine. A few are sick like my Grandson he always getting sick over a speck of dust.

What you are supporting is Junk science with no foundation. At some point in time Buyers and sellers are going to come into this kind of information and the inspectors that are providing Junk science mould testing will get hit by law firms L&R.

I provide a news letters on Junk science/mould testing and that the inspectors that provide this kind of information are just taking buyers money and giving nothing of value in return. ( Junk lab reports )

Best

Ron

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

Because the mold test results aren't enough.

A mold issue must be looked at holistically. One must understand roof leaks, downspouts, ventilation, gutters, stucco, EIFS, sump pumps, plumbing leaks, drywall, condensation, drainage, foundations, and most everything else about a home to do a proper mold inspection. The mold test portion of a mold inspection is pretty simple.

Home inspectors are particularly suited for this. That is why IAC2 requires membership in InterNACHI first.

Non-home inspectors have no business performing mold tests.

.
No Sale.
.

Your post indicates that are incorrectly assuming that consumers hire inspectors to do mold inspections (not mold tests) for purely health reasons. Consumers want to know what is causing their moisture and mold problems for a variety of valid reasons, and home inspectors trained in moisture intrusion and mold are particularly suited to help them.

BTW: Our moisture intrusion course is one of InterNACHI's many membership requirements.

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

.
Your post indicates that are incorrectly assuming that consumers hire inspectors to do mold inspections (not mold tests) for purely health reasons. Consumers want to know what is causing their moisture and mold problems for a variety of valid reasons, and home inspectors trained in moisture intrusion and mold are particularly suited to help them.

.

.
Your Post Indicates that you are incorrectly assuming anybody is Buying your Guff.
* or takes you seriously.
.

Moisture intrusion and mold account for more than 1/2 of all consumer inspection requests we receive.

As the World Health Organization report shows, the two are very related.

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

BTW: Our moisture intrusion course is one of InterNACHI's many membership requirements.

OK, then how many INACHI members have successfully passed this course? Should be fairly simple to look that number up.

Originally Posted by Billy Stephens

.
Your Post Indicates that you are incorrectly assuming anybody is Buying your Guff.
* or takes you seriously.
.

Better watch our Billy, you might get kicked out of Nicks clubhouse!