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  1. #1
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    Default These don't look like carpenter ants

    First of all as I just posted elsewhere, I only speak in general terms with insects and defer to the experts for ID. I wonder if these are what Ron would call 'nuisance' ants. The realtor gave us the heads-up, a pest control company was going in to treat for ants. I saw the little pile of debris first, in the crawlspace near the sill plate. No sawdust. Then when I pulled the insulation back, they came out running, some with eggs in their beaks. I put the insulation back, don't want them to hide somewhere else. I'm including a pic of the outside wall and it's easy to see why they moved in there. I did not see any other insect signs, no sawdust piles or termite tubes, no rotting wood. These look like the kind that usually tunnel in the dirt, pretty harmless, I think?

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: These don't look like carpenter ants

    These don't look like carpenter ants

    Of course not, it's lunch time and they took off their tool belts.

    Sorry, but you set that one up so well I could not let it pass by.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  3. #3
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
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    Default Re: These don't look like carpenter ants

    Camponotus modoc. AKA Carpenter ant.

    Best

    Ron


  4. #4
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    Default Re: These don't look like carpenter ants

    Thanks, Ron. That's why I try not to name them. Once there's damage, it gets easier.
    Jerry, these are the architects and planners, no tools.


  5. #5
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: These don't look like carpenter ants

    Once again, from those photos, no positive identification can be made. Anyone who says otherwise is mistaken, unless of course, that long-distance ID is made by microscopus inspectoreye, closely related to leftcoastimus hotairius, commonly known as RB.


  6. #6
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
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    Default Re: These don't look like carpenter ants

    Quote Originally Posted by A.D. Miller View Post
    Once again, from those photos, no positive identification can be made. Anyone who says otherwise is mistaken, unless of course, that long-distance ID is made by microscopus inspectoreye, closely related to leftcoastimus hotairius, commonly known as RB.
    Say BAGDAD BOB there is only one ant in the Northwest that is a 1/2 inch. long and black and makes a nest in homes. I Wounder what it could be Camponotus modoc. AKA Carpenter ant.

    Ive got $ 500.00 say thats what it is. Let get John to go get one and take to the local AGG. DEPT.

    I have lived and work that part of the Northwest for years as a State LIC. WDO. The ID Is correct.

    Best

    Ron


  7. #7
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    Default Re: These don't look like carpenter ants

    Looks like a carpenter ant to me.

    Nuisance ants, aka. Piss ants, Sugar ants, Pharaoh ants and I'm sure a few more are what come to mind.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  8. #8
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: These don't look like carpenter ants

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Bibler View Post
    Say BAGDAD BOB there is only one ant in the Northwest that is a 1/2 inch. long and black and makes a nest in homes. I Wounder what it could be Camponotus modoc. AKA Carpenter ant.

    Ive got $ 500.00 say thats what it is. Let get John to go get one and take to the local AGG. DEPT.

    I have lived and work that part of the Northwest for years as a State LIC. WDO. The ID Is correct.

    Ron
    RB: Here's what the experts say:

    “Identifying Common Structure-Infesting Ants

    Most of the common species of structure-infesting ants are not difficult to identify after some practice, but the use of a hand lens or microscope is usually necessary to identify species.”

    -Handbook of Pest Control, Arnold Mallis


    Identifying Ants

    Magnifiers and Vials

    Because ants are so small it is important to have a portable 30X magnifier available at all times.”

    Field Guide for the Management of Structure-Infesting Ants, Stoy A. Hedges, PCT



    But then, you probably can identify a carpenter ant on a house using Google Earth, right?


    I'll let you keep your $500.


  9. #9
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
    Ron Bibler Guest

    Default Re: These don't look like carpenter ants

    Quote Originally Posted by [B
    BAGDAD BOB[/B] ;94136]RB: Here's what the experts say:

    Dude I'm an Expert in this field...


    Best

    Ron


  10. #10
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: These don't look like carpenter ants

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Bibler View Post
    Dude I'm an Expert in this field...


    Best

    Ron
    RB: Spare me the Valley Boy greetings. The only dudes here move here from somwhere west of here .

    I have carried a certified applicator's license in Texas for 12 years. Does that count?


  11. #11
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
    Ron Bibler Guest

    Default Re: These don't look like carpenter ants

    Quote Originally Posted by [B
    BAGDAD BOB[/B];94140]RB: I have carried a certified applicator's license in Texas for 12 years. Does that count?

    NO!

    Best

    Ron



  12. #12
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: These don't look like carpenter ants

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Bibler View Post
    Dude I'm an Expert in this field...


    Best

    Ron

    What are you doing in the field??? You are suppose to be inspecting houses


  13. #13
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
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    Default Re: These don't look like carpenter ants

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post
    What are you doing in the field??? You are suppose to be inspecting houses
    I'm trying to get out the door.

    but its too much fun messing with BAGDAD BOB.


    Best

    Ron


  14. #14
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: These don't look like carpenter ants

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Bibler View Post
    NO!

    Best

    Ron
    RB: Slow down there hoss. At least one court of law in North Texas disagrees with you.


  15. #15
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: These don't look like carpenter ants

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post
    What are you doing in the field??? You are suppose to be inspecting houses
    TM: I'd rather have been in a field than at the POS I inspected at Cedar Creek this morning - in the effing rain!


  16. #16
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: These don't look like carpenter ants

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Bibler View Post
    I'm trying to get out the door.

    but its too much fun messing with BAGDAD BOB.


    Best

    Ron
    RB: Check back later then. I have about 80 pages left of this 100-pager.


  17. #17
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: These don't look like carpenter ants

    Quote Originally Posted by A.D. Miller View Post
    TM: I'd rather have been in a field than at the POS I inspected at Cedar Creek this morning - in the effing rain!
    I would rather be inspecting that POS in Cedar Creek than sitting here on my arse. Very slow end of month. Most months go out with a bang. Not this one.

    I did help out with a spot treatment yesterday along with a carpenter ant treatment. Now those monster all black carpenter ants you could have identified from google earth. Not to often I see them that big and solid black.


  18. #18
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
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    Default Re: These don't look like carpenter ants

    Quote Originally Posted by BAGDAD BOBr View Post
    RB: Slow down there hoss. At least one court of law in North Texas disagrees with you.
    OK You got me on that one. You known how to squirt an ANT With hand B&G.

    Your now an expert in your field BAGDAD BOB.

    squirt squirt squirt

    Best

    Ron


  19. #19
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: These don't look like carpenter ants

    squirt squirt squirt


    RB: Your scooter's sound?


  20. #20
    Michael P. O'Handley's Avatar
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    Default Re: These don't look like carpenter ants

    Hi,

    I'll agree with Ron. Carpenter ants are the largest species in N.A. and especially in this region. The first photo is fuzzy, but even then one can see that the antennae are set far back on the head of those ants, so they'll be out of the way when they're mining wood, and that the top of their thorax is smoothly rounded, sort of like the curve you'd see on the top of a teardrop gas tank on most choppers. Those are two of the three characteristics needed to identify a carpenter ant; the other, the one that I can't make out from the photo, is the petiole node - I can't tell if there is one there and if there is there should be only one.

    Just because you didn't find frass doesn't mean they aren't carpenter ants; carpenter ants have no reason to mine wood and create frass, as long as the place they've chosen to store their eggs is large enough for their purposes. They create the frass when they begin enlarging their domain. Unlike termites, which live in their own filth, carpenter ants are fastidious and will dump all frass and other detritus outside.

    They also might not be "nesting" in the home but instead are using it for an incubator. Around here - not much more than 100 miles from V.I. - they'll nest outside in rotting wood or railroad ties used for landscaping timbers and will move their eggs to dry storage in the walls of houses, typically on the south side where the wall will be nice and warm.

    Putting the insulation back probably did nothing to prevent them from moving; once they think they've been discovered, they'll put every single drone to work ferrying those eggs to a new location so that when the pest guy arrives he might not see anything there.

    Don't look for the nest in an obvious straight line from where you found them; I've followed them out of a crawlspace wall, up the side of a house, into the attic, out the other side of the attic, down the other side of the house and across a lawn to railroad ties where I found the main nest. Total distance - probably 200ft. - actual distance from the nursery - 60ft.

    A couple of weeks ago, I came across a house with a steady train of camponotus carrying bits of insects up the corner of a chimney and into a gap between the roof deck and the chimneystack, while at the same time another train came down and about every tenth ant coming down the stack carried an egg. It was pretty obvious that there was a queen up there someplace churning out eggs and the eggs were being moved to the nursery.

    ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

    Mike

    Last edited by Michael P. O'Handley; 07-30-2009 at 11:36 AM.

  21. #21
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: These don't look like carpenter ants

    MOH: Damn! Google Earth has a lot of you ant inspectors running around!


  22. #22
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    Default Re: These don't look like carpenter ants

    They do look like carpenters. Who would like to bet they are not?

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  23. #23
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
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    Default Re: These don't look like carpenter ants

    Quote Originally Posted by John Kogel View Post
    They do look like carpenters. Who would like to bet they are not?

    That be them. Camponotus modoc. AKA Carpenter ant. John thats a nice photo. has each instar case.

    Best

    Ron


  24. #24
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: These don't look like carpenter ants

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Bibler View Post
    That be them. Camponotus modoc. AKA Carpenter ant. John thats a nice photo. has each instar case.

    Best

    Ron
    RB: Yep, I can see them now . . .

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  25. #25
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
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    Default Re: These don't look like carpenter ants

    Quote Originally Posted by A.D. Miller View Post
    RB: Yep, I can see them now . . .

    Say BAGDAD BOB... Check out the red area thats my place. This image was from 10 years back. As this was before the BLACKTOP DRIVEWAY.
    if you look you can see the dirt driveway. from space

    Best

    Ron

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  26. #26
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: These don't look like carpenter ants

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Bibler View Post
    Say BAGDAD BOB... Check out the red area thats my place. This image was from 10 years back. As this was before the BLACKTOP DRIVEWAY.
    if you look you can see the dirt driveway. from space

    Best

    Ron
    RB: I feel that I am drifting further out. I'll have to squint to catch a glimpse. Wait, no I am too f-a-r o-u---t . . . . bound for the planet Patronia.


  27. #27
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    Default Re: These don't look like carpenter ants

    Ron,

    How did you capture that image from Google?

    Curious Rick


  28. #28
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    Default Re: These don't look like carpenter ants

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Hurst View Post
    Ron,

    How did you capture that image from Google?

    Curious Rick
    From Aaron's post.

    Easy enough to do though, I bring it up on the display and capture the area I want with my graphics program, but I believe you can just print it or save it, been a while so I am not sure (I just do an area capture with my program).

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    Last edited by Jerry Peck; 07-30-2009 at 04:52 PM. Reason: added photo
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  29. #29
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
    Ron Bibler Guest

    Default Re: These don't look like carpenter ants

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Hurst View Post
    Ron,

    How did you capture that image from Google?

    Curious Rick

    Rick Ask BAGDAD BOB How he did that.

    Its is odd that that photo from Google is that old.

    Best

    Ron


  30. #30
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: These don't look like carpenter ants

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Hurst View Post
    Ron,

    How did you capture that image from Google?

    Curious Rick
    RH: Screen capture.

    ScreenPrint32 3.1 - Free software downloads and software reviews - CNET Download.com


  31. #31
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    Default Re: These don't look like carpenter ants

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Bibler View Post
    Rick Ask BAGDAD BOB How he did that.

    Its is odd that that photo from Google is that old.

    Best

    Ron
    Photo date is Oct 2003.


  32. #32
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    Default Re: These don't look like carpenter ants

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Bibler View Post
    That be them. Camponotus modoc. AKA Carpenter ant. John thats a nice photo. has each instar case.

    Best

    Ron
    Pest Control Canada
    And thank you, Micheal P. O'Handley, that's good info.


  33. #33
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    Default Re: These don't look like carpenter ants

    Rick, To capture your screen, bring up the image, hit the print screen key, then open the paint program under acessories, click on edit, then click paste.
    Or instead of paint i use IrfanView - Official Homepage - one of the most popular viewers worldwide


  34. #34
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    Default Re: These don't look like carpenter ants

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael P. O'Handley View Post
    Hi,

    I'll agree with Ron. Carpenter ants are the largest species in N.A. and especially in this region. The first photo is fuzzy, but even then one can see that the antennae are set far back on the head of those ants, so they'll be out of the way when they're mining wood, and that the top of their thorax is smoothly rounded, sort of like the curve you'd see on the top of a teardrop gas tank on most choppers. Those are two of the three characteristics needed to identify a carpenter ant; the other, the one that I can't make out from the photo, is the petiole node - I can't tell if there is one there and if there is there should be only one.

    Just because you didn't find frass doesn't mean they aren't carpenter ants; carpenter ants have no reason to mine wood and create frass, as long as the place they've chosen to store their eggs is large enough for their purposes. They create the frass when they begin enlarging their domain. Unlike termites, which live in their own filth, carpenter ants are fastidious and will dump all frass and other detritus outside.

    They also might not be "nesting" in the home but instead are using it for an incubator. Around here - not much more than 100 miles from V.I. - they'll nest outside in rotting wood or railroad ties used for landscaping timbers and will move their eggs to dry storage in the walls of houses, typically on the south side where the wall will be nice and warm.

    Putting the insulation back probably did nothing to prevent them from moving; once they think they've been discovered, they'll put every single drone to work ferrying those eggs to a new location so that when the pest guy arrives he might not see anything there.


    Mike
    This makes sense. The lack of wood-gnawing had me wondering, so it's reasonable to say this was a nursery group. I have a crew of stump grinders working on a project in my backyard right now. They work hard and there's never a complaint.

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  35. #35
    Michael P. O'Handley's Avatar
    Michael P. O'Handley Guest

    Default Re: These don't look like carpenter ants

    Quote Originally Posted by John Kogel View Post
    This makes sense. The lack of wood-gnawing had me wondering, so it's reasonable to say this was a nursery group. I have a crew of stump grinders working on a project in my backyard right now. They work hard and there's never a complaint.
    Yeah,

    if you go out very late at night with a flashlight and make a circle around that stump you should find a trail being tended by workers; kind of like the VC would come out at night and repair the wagon track known as the Ho Chi Minh trail, after daytime efforts to destroy it, in Vietnam during the war. The trail will lead from that stump to another location, possibly the house.

    ONE TEAM - ONE FIGHT!!!

    Mike


  36. #36
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    Default Re: These don't look like carpenter ants


  37. #37
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: These don't look like carpenter ants

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post

    Termidor

    The only way to go


  38. #38

    Default Re: These don't look like carpenter ants

    Termidor

    The only way to go
    Agreed.


  39. #39
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
    Ron Bibler Guest

    Default Re: These don't look like carpenter ants

    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon Whitmore View Post
    Agreed.
    If you want to deal with carpenter ants. use a vacuum cleaner

    I'm not joking... If you can find the mass nest in a home a vacuum cleaner works great. BIG GIANT SUCKING SOUND And they will not come back...

    Best

    Ron


  40. #40

    Default Re: These don't look like carpenter ants

    If you want to deal with carpenter ants. use a vacuum cleaner

    I'm not joking... If you can find the mass nest in a home a vacuum cleaner works great. BIG GIANT SUCKING SOUND And they will not come back...

    Yeah, if you want to tear open the house to get to them. I found 6 separates nests on my half acre property, a few of which were inside my home. I inspected the house before I bought it, and did find evidence of the ants, but did not expect what I had found. I used the Termidor last year, and haven't seen an ant willing to step foot onto by structure since... I'm still watching 2 separate nests on my property for fun. One of them is in my barkdust, and another one is in a detached structure. I hate to kill them off as my blue jay population is growing, and I hate to take away a food source.


  41. #41
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    Default Re: These don't look like carpenter ants

    Quote Originally Posted by Damon McCarty View Post
    Rick, To capture your screen, bring up the image, hit the print screen key, then open the paint program under acessories, click on edit, then click paste.
    Or instead of paint i use IrfanView - Official Homepage - one of the most popular viewers worldwide
    So that is what the print screen button is for, and here I have been using a third party software.

    Mike Schulz License 393
    Affordable Home Inspections
    www.houseinspections.com

  42. #42
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    Default Re: These don't look like carpenter ants

    If you hold down the "Alt" button then hit "PrintScrn"
    then it will copy only your highlighted
    (the window on top) window.


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