Results 1 to 22 of 22

Thread: Asbestos?

  1. #1
    Geoff Stewart's Avatar
    Geoff Stewart Guest

    Default Asbestos?

    Old gas heater in garage. Obvious CO call out. Asbestos heat deflectors?

    Similar Threads:
    ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images
    Inspection Referral

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Spring Hill (Nashville), TN
    Posts
    5,847

    Default Re: Asbestos?

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff Stewart View Post
    Old gas heater in garage. Obvious CO call out. Asbestos heat deflectors?
    Inside the heater? Who knows what they are made of unless you have them tested. Most likely they are some type of clay ceramic.

    I would not call it an obvious CO call out unless you tested the CO that was coming off the heater.

    IF you want to report the space heater just say you found an old space heater and that caution should be used with it as they can emit CO when used. I would not even bring asbestos into the equation.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    North Central Texas
    Posts
    472

    Default Re: Asbestos?

    Likely fire clay refractory material (radiants). If in doubt get replacements that are. Looks like a Dearborn heater. Replacements are available.
    DEARBORN GAS SPACE HEATERS

    Texas Inspector
    http://www.texasinspector.com
    What the plainspoken man lacks in subtlety, he makes up in clarity.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Western Maryland
    Posts
    131

    Default Re: Asbestos?

    Looks like ceramic to me. And Scott is right: don't call out CO unless you have measured it, but you can call out an unvented gas appliance and a POTENTIAL CO source.

    Mark Fisher
    Allegany Inspection Service - Cumberland MD 21502 - 301-722-2224
    Home Inspections, Mold Testing, Thermal Imaging

  5. #5
    Geoff Stewart's Avatar
    Geoff Stewart Guest

    Default Re: Asbestos?

    Called it a potential CO hazard in the report, should have clarified that in my post. Am I going to measure the CO content of a unit like this in the future. Nope. Good call on the asbestos thing though guys, thanks.


  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,248

    Default Re: Asbestos?

    As others have stated, call it an unvented gas space heater, the kind which are no longer allowed to be installed. I would refer to those when describing the new ventless gas heaters/appliances ... 'Remember those old gas space heaters from years ago at your parents house or your grandparents house (depending on the age of who I am talking to), remember those were known to burn up the oxygen in the air and kill people?'

    Usually, the response would be 'Oh, yeah, I remember those things.', or something like that.

    Then I would reply something to the effect of 'There are two main differences between those hold unvented gas heaters and the ventless gas heaters of today, and two main similarities too:
    Differences between the new ones and the old ones:
    - 1) The new ones have a metal tag attached to it which says to open a window or door or you could die ... their lawyers are already telling you that, so don't call them when you die.
    - 2) The newer ones have oxygen depletion sensors which are supposed to shut the units down if the oxygen level drops ... such as because you did not open a window or a door because it let the cold air in.

    Similarities between the new ones and the old ones:
    - 1) They both burn up the oxygen in the room.
    - 2) They both vent the combustion gases to the room.

    Basically speaking, anyway.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  7. #7
    Geoff Stewart's Avatar
    Geoff Stewart Guest

    Default Re: Asbestos?

    Good stuff Jerry. Now if I can figure out how to rotate pictures for posting that will be another "basic" under my belt.


  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,248

    Default Re: Asbestos?

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff Stewart View Post
    Now if I can figure out how to rotate pictures for posting that will be another "basic" under my belt.
    Geoff,

    I was going to comment on how that thing worked hanging off that table thing mounted to the wall ... ... then I saw the tool box and thought that was really good hanging that thing like that.

    Double click the file in the folder in My Computer, there should be a rotate counterclockwise and rotate clockwise thing at the bottom. Not sure if the file permanently rotates as I do use a graphics program, but you could try that and see if the photo rotates permanently.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Snowbird (this means I'm retired and migrate between locations), FL/MI
    Posts
    4,086

    Default Re: Asbestos?

    Looks to be space heater (ignition source) within 18" of the garage floor (Still considered to be part of the garage, if the room or the space not part of the 'living space of a dwelling unit' communicates with a private garage through an opening or openings); Wrong (oversized) radiants in place, questionable presence of reflector sheild, and radiants are unguarded (missing 'dress guards') has been modified inconsistant with product design or safety standards of the period or present; located in a confined space; not maintaining overall clearances, and too-near combustibles (wood, cardboard in front, etc.); ambient temperatures may exceed safety, unshielded heat to wall switch, sink to conductors in same; Heater appears to be of a vintage which would not contain inherent anti-tip/safety-shut-down features, and is above the floor not upon it, unsecured upon a combustible platform.



    ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images
    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 08-08-2012 at 11:52 AM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,248

    Default Re: Asbestos?

    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    Looks to be space heater (ignition source) within 18" of the garage floor (Still considered to be part of the garage, ...
    Looks to me like it meets the 18" to any part of it which could be an ignition source, at least that is the way it looks to me comparing it to the height of the work bench, which are typically countertop height at 36", and that is setting on a support which looks to be slightly more than half-way up the height of the work bench.

    Geoff, did you measure or estimate the height of the support that heater is setting on?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    579

    Default Re: Asbestos?

    Was it connected to gas supply?


  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Snowbird (this means I'm retired and migrate between locations), FL/MI
    Posts
    4,086

    Default Re: Asbestos?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Looks to me like it meets the 18" to any part of it which could be an ignition source...
    If you are suggesting that the entirety of the pictured heater is elevated 18" above the floor and for that reason alone there is no threat of ignition of ANYTHING, then there is no point in discussing the matter further with YOU.

    If the item photographed, situated as photographed, is connected to a fuel and/or electrical supply, there is a safety issue.


  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,248

    Default Re: Asbestos?

    You are apparently correct in that there is no point in discussing the matter further with YOU as you have, yet again, resorted to your practice of mis-direction and re-direction.

    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    If you are suggesting that the entirety of the pictured heater is elevated 18" above the floor and for that reason alone there is no threat of ignition of ANYTHING, then there is no point in discussing the matter further with YOU.

    If the item photographed, situated as photographed, is connected to a fuel and/or electrical supply, there is a safety issue.
    Yes, the heater DOES appear to be above the 18" height for being considered an ignition source.

    Then, as typical with you in your mis-direction and re-direction, you are changing from "ignition source" to any type of general "safety issue".

    Those two things are completely different, but I expect no less from you than to try to switch from a discussion on the heater being an "ignition source" and being 18" high above the garage floor or not, to being about any and all "safety issues" - of which there are several.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    North Central Texas
    Posts
    472

    Default Re: Asbestos?

    I am certain that JP and HGW have copies of this committed to memories or hanging on the walls of their offices. But, for the rest of us . . .

    SCHOPENHAUER'S 38 STRATAGEMS, OR 38 WAYS TO WIN AN ARGUMENT

    Texas Inspector
    http://www.texasinspector.com
    What the plainspoken man lacks in subtlety, he makes up in clarity.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Columbus GA
    Posts
    3,746

    Default Re: Asbestos?

    Aaron
    There should be one more
    #39 If all the above fail, lie.

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    North Central Texas
    Posts
    472

    Default Re: Asbestos?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Cantrell View Post
    Aaron
    There should be one more
    #39 If all the above fail, lie.
    Agreed.

    Texas Inspector
    http://www.texasinspector.com
    What the plainspoken man lacks in subtlety, he makes up in clarity.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Columbus GA
    Posts
    3,746

    Default Re: Asbestos?

    This one is used often
    #8 Make your opponent angry. An angry person is less capable of using judgement or perceiving where his or her advantage lies.
    (Make your opponent angry by using Insults, belittling, and provoking, language.)

    and this one
    #18 If your opponent has taken up a line of argument that will end in your defeat, you must not allow him or her to carry it to its conclusion. Interrupt the dispute, break it off altogether, or lead the opponent to a different subject.
    (misdirection or redirection)

    #27 Should your opponent surprise you by becoming particularly angry at an argument, you must urge it with all the more zeal. Not only will this make the opponent angry, it may be presumed that you put your finger on the weak side of his or her case, and that the opponent is more open to attack on this point than you expected.

    And last but certainly not the least
    #38 A last trick is to become personal, insulting and rude as soon as you perceive that your opponent has the upper hand. In becoming personal you leave the subject altogether, and turn your attack on the person by remarks of an offensive and spiteful character. This is a very popular trick, because everyone is able to carry it into effect.

    Aaron
    I think you are right
    We have been played like a fiddle.

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    North Central Texas
    Posts
    472

    Default Re: Asbestos?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Cantrell View Post
    I think you are right
    We have been played like a fiddle.
    What's wrong with JP and HGW, cat gut [sic] your tounges?

    Texas Inspector
    http://www.texasinspector.com
    What the plainspoken man lacks in subtlety, he makes up in clarity.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Snowbird (this means I'm retired and migrate between locations), FL/MI
    Posts
    4,086

    Default Re: Asbestos?

    Hello Aaron,

    My posts speak for themselves, as does the rotated picture.

    By the way, taking note of the frame style and the shape/orientation hearth plate & that which is below I suspect the heater may be a vintage Thermolaire (Birmingham Stove..) or some other, but do not recognize it as a Dearborn model.

    There is no point in arguing with a blind man who cannot see what is displayed in a picture, nor is there any point in discussiong what within consitutes an ignition source if one doesn't recognize what ignitables and combustibles are pictured and can be ignited.

    Since the OP inquired about asbestos, and we do not have specifics regarding Mfg, Model, AGE (serial number, etc.) picture of the rating plate, etc. AND the space or room heater is of apparent vintage and apparently modified, IMO it would be wise to presume ACM until or unless verified otherwise.

    As far as the CO threat - if the unit is of a particular age, or type you don't have to measure CO to warn of it.


  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Snowbird (this means I'm retired and migrate between locations), FL/MI
    Posts
    4,086

    Default Re: Asbestos?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck
    You are apparently correct in that there is no point in discussing the matter further with YOU as you have, yet again, resorted to your practice of mis-direction and re-direction.


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr.
    If you are suggesting that the entirety of the pictured heater is elevated 18" above the floor and for that reason alone there is no threat of ignition of ANYTHING, then there is no point in discussing the matter further with YOU.

    If the item photographed, situated as photographed, is connected to a fuel and/or electrical supply, there is a safety issue.



    Yes, the heater DOES appear to be above the 18" height for being considered an ignition source.

    Then, as typical with you in your mis-direction and re-direction, you are changing from "ignition source" to any type of general "safety issue".
    Peck,
    I didn't and haven't mis-directed or re-directed anything. It is you who twist, snip, snipe, misdirect and redirect. My posts speak for themselves, your claims otherwise are without merit.


    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    Looks to be space heater (ignition source) within 18" of the garage floor (Still considered to be part of the garage, if the room or the space not part of the 'living space of a dwelling unit' communicates with a private garage through an opening or openings); Wrong (oversized) radiants in place, questionable presence of reflector sheild, and radiants are unguarded (missing 'dress guards') has been modified inconsistant with product design or safety standards of the period or present; located in a confined space; not maintaining overall clearances, and too-near combustibles (wood, cardboard in front, etc.); ambient temperatures may exceed safety, unshielded heat to wall switch, sink to conductors in same; Heater appears to be of a vintage which would not contain inherent anti-tip/safety-shut-down features, and is above the floor not upon it, unsecured upon a combustible platform.




  21. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    North Central Texas
    Posts
    472

    Default Re: Asbestos?

    HG:

    I didn't rotate or enlarge the photo. It wouldn't have helped though. The only gas space heater brand I am familiar with is Dearborn. We don't have much call for them in North Central Texas, especially with raging climate change.

    My posts were intended to lighten the mood, not to make any specific recommendations or pontifications. As for unvented gas space heaters, I usually just report that they should be taken out of service due to all of the reasons mentioned - CO, fire hazards, et al.

    I'm not siding with anyone here or not. In the past couple of very hard years I have taken the step beyond merely paying lip service to not caring about what others think of my opinion to just plain not caring.

    So, you guys have fun cussing and discussing whatever. It is educational and sometimes even amusing, in a tense sort of fashion.

    Texas Inspector
    http://www.texasinspector.com
    What the plainspoken man lacks in subtlety, he makes up in clarity.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,248

    Default Re: Asbestos?

    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    My posts speak for themselves, ...
    Your posts not only speak for themselves, they speak volumes about you and your actions, and many of your posts are yelling for and about themselves ... although ... if a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it, does it really make a sound ... or, to word it differently ... if you post and no one reads it or accepts it, did you really post anything ...



    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •